Bow Supremacy

[Grimace]

And you cannot Flank someone with a ranged attack

One of the more absurd rules from D20. 

[Krensky]

You could do so in Spycraft 2.0. I think it got cut for complexity reasons more than for balance ones, but I'm sure Pat or Alex will correct me if I'm wrong. If you want to add ranged flanking back in the GM will have another thing tobadjudicate, but nothing should break. Similarly, Practice Makes Perfect has a ranged feint advanced trick that bow and repeating crossbow users might like.

[VisualStatic]

Do you have to be the flanker though?   What if the target is flanked by 2 PCs, and you are off at range?

[Grimace]

Do you have to be the flanker though?   What if the target is flanked by 2 PCs, and you are off at range?

Shooting into combat, scary stuff.  

I cannot speak for FantasyCraft, but typical D20 flanking involves being on the flank or having an ally opposite you with the target inbetween.  So even if flanking was allowed with ranged you'd either have to be behind them or have an ally opposite you to get the flanking bonus/sneak.

Hope that made sense.

[Krensky]

Let me get home and see about recasting the rules for MC.

[Catodon]

Alternatively, just decide that narrative is king and house rule that PC's never run out of ammo.

There are people out there who track ammunition? 

Depends on the games and the feel I want. If you want to push players to solve problems, or want a grim feel, or want to challenge high level characters without having to trot out one dark lord after another then: tracking ammo, calculating travel times, and other simulation stuff is useful. (your kingdom is under attack but it will take three weeks to ride there, your out of ammo what new tactics can you come up with?)

However if I'm looking for light hollywood action then 'none of the above'.

[Antilles]

Just to be 100% clear, this applies even if sneak attack conditions are not removed, right? Make two half action attacks, each with that trick against a flanked character and sneak attack will apply to 2 of 6 of those hits? There's no way the wording would imply otherwise, just making sure that was still the intent.

Sneak attack damage only ever applies if the conditions are right it to apply (IE the target is flatfooted or flanked). If something causes the character to lose flatfooted (such as after taking the first hit from a Multishot bow attack), the sneak attack would not apply to the remaining attacks.

A follow-up question: If a character is somehow suffering some effect that makes him 'permanently' flat-footed (an exotic poison or what have you), then mechanically speaking you still only get one sneak attack hit in a multiple-hit-attack? As in, the first hit happens, the character takes sneak attack damage, the flat-footed condition goes away as per it's own rules, the remaining hits are non-sneak attacks, and as soon as the attack resolves the poison (or whatever effect) kicks in and re-instates the flat-footed condition? Just trying to get a grasp for the flow of mechanics here...

[Goodlun]

Just to be 100% clear, this applies even if sneak attack conditions are not removed, right? Make two half action attacks, each with that trick against a flanked character and sneak attack will apply to 2 of 6 of those hits? There's no way the wording would imply otherwise, just making sure that was still the intent.

Sneak attack damage only ever applies if the conditions are right it to apply (IE the target is flatfooted or flanked). If something causes the character to lose flatfooted (such as after taking the first hit from a Multishot bow attack), the sneak attack would not apply to the remaining attacks.

A follow-up question: If a character is somehow suffering some effect that makes him 'permanently' flat-footed (an exotic poison or what have you), then mechanically speaking you still only get one sneak attack hit in a multiple-hit-attack? As in, the first hit happens, the character takes sneak attack damage, the flat-footed condition goes away as per it's own rules, the remaining hits are non-sneak attacks, and as soon as the attack resolves the poison (or whatever effect) kicks in and re-instates the flat-footed condition? Just trying to get a grasp for the flow of mechanics here...

I think basically the concept is to not allow a whole lot of sneak attacks from one character on to another character in a single round as that would just be horrifically unbalancing. 

[esoclectica]

2 things

Sneak attack applies to attacks, right?  so if you make 2 attack rolls on a flatfooted opponent and generate 3 hits on the first and one on the second shouldn't sneak attack be applied 3 times?  After the first ATTACK the flatfooted condition goes away, but all 3 of the first attacks hits occurred on on attack.

On ammo.  I think of ammo  as being replaced at the same time the character receives cash from Panache.  Anyone shooting volleys of 12 arrows had better have several quivers and keep track of the encumbrance.  Facing several large mobs of mooks could take 2 to 5 salvos of arrows each.  An overland adventure could involve half a dozen encounters, at least one and usually 2 with mobs of bad guys.  No ammo resupply until everthing is over means carrying a LOT of arrows.

[Crafty_Alex]

2 things

Sneak attack applies to attacks, right?  so if you make 2 attack rolls on a flatfooted opponent and generate 3 hits on the first and one on the second shouldn't sneak attack be applied 3 times?  After the first ATTACK the flatfooted condition goes away, but all 3 of the first attacks hits occurred on on attack.

Again, the rules are:

On sneak attack damage (page 211, third bullet): "If a single attack generates multiple hits, sneak attack damage is only applied to the first hit."

[Deral]

Do you have to be the flanker though?   What if the target is flanked by 2 PCs, and you are off at range?

This led me to a bit of confusion, the flanking rules are actually a little back and forth, they imply a character gains the flanked condition when two opponents stand on either side, but then says that "While flanking a character, an opponent gains +2 to attack checks against him." A totally literal reading of that would say they gain the condition but only the two creating the condition gain a bonus to hit (still making them officially flanked for sneak attack). I don't think that's the actual intention, but I guess we'll see.

Also, I must have never noticed before, but does even a Stunned or Paralyzed character lose flat-footed after they've been hit once, even if the original condition persists? (Again, the rules imply yes, I just don't know for sure if that's the intention, it seems so obvious yet it has never crossed my mind, maybe that's why.)

[Gentry]

If you want to add ranged flanking back in the GM will have another thing tobadjudicate,

I think we now need a Badjudication thread someplace for GM horror stories.

[Krensky]

Damn phone keyboard.

[Catodon]

On ammo.  I think of ammo  as being replaced at the same time the character receives cash from Panache.  Anyone shooting volleys of 12 arrows had better have several quivers and keep track of the encumbrance.  Facing several large mobs of mooks could take 2 to 5 salvos of arrows each.  An overland adventure could involve half a dozen encounters, at least one and usually 2 with mobs of bad guys.  No ammo resupply until everthing is over means carrying a LOT of arrows.

Yep. A lot of arrows. Why do you think logistics wins wars. to elaborate on my previouys post. A) go hollywood. How many arrows did legolas use in LOTR films yet he always had a full quiver to do his incredible trick-shots
B) go sim: the players will discover why slings were so popular, why a mule and a horse was used by many noble warriors, that they have to plan and still overcome shortages when things go wrong.

both options offer drama and entertainment so both can be right, pick one. 

[Atr]

Just to be sure, the damage for the additional hit you get with bow supremacy if you hit by 4 or more, is 1d6 (the arrow damage) or 1d6+modifiers (archer sp., stance, and so on...)?