Armor Check Penalty

[Sicktabou]

Hello all!

The book says that the ACP modifies physical skills...I guess this always depend on the use as if you use Athletics to evaluate the difficulty to climb a surface, you don't suffer the ACP.

Good...

Now does the ACP affects the Spellcasting check?

In fact, is there any disadvantage for a magic user to wear armor?


Thanks!

[Doublebond]

...does the ACP affects the Spellcasting check?

In fact, is there any disadvantage for a magic user to wear armor?


Thanks!

As I recall, it does not. There is no such official disincentive from the core rules, but it's an easy house ruling to simply apply ACP penalties to Spellcasting checks. I'm sure there's other houserulings that fiddle with that mechanic out there as well.

[Krensky]

The rule is that when a check uses Str, Dex, or Con it's a physical skill, if it uses Int, Wis, or Cha it's a mental skill. Under the rules, Spellcasting is a mental skill and not effected by ACP.

As stated, if you want armor to effect casters, just apply ACP anyway.

[Sletchman]

In fact, is there any disadvantage for a magic user to wear armor?

Quite the opposite - with Draconic upgrade, mages will go out of their way to done some armour.

Of course any GM has the right to houserule in that the ACP applies to spellcasting checks, as others have mentioned.

[Morfedel]

I have to say, that's the one thing I didn't like about FC: there is no reason for a mage to not load up on armor, as there isn't a single disincentive (that I could discern). Sure would make Gandalf look a lot different!!!

[Grimace]

Personally, I'll have the ACP affect spellcasting.  Not because it's metal and it somehow interferes in casting, but because armor is heavy and can restrict movements and such.

God help the mage that casts an electrical based attacks while in metal armor, in my game. 

[MilitiaJim]

Personally, I'll have the ACP affect spellcasting.  Not because it's metal and it somehow interferes in casting, but because armor is heavy and can restrict movements and such.

God help the mage that casts an electrical based attacks while in metal armor, in my game. 

It's been covered a lot so I'll make it brief:  Armor is not very restricting.  A week of practice will have a mage casting comfortably in everything but the gauntlets.

Add a couple wires down each leg from the chain vest that stick into the ground, and you may be safer around the electricity...

[Grimace]

Personally, I'll have the ACP affect spellcasting.  Not because it's metal and it somehow interferes in casting, but because armor is heavy and can restrict movements and such.

God help the mage that casts an electrical based attacks while in metal armor, in my game. 

It's been covered a lot so I'll make it brief:  Armor is not very restricting.  A week of practice will have a mage casting comfortably in everything but the gauntlets.

Add a couple wires down each leg from the chain vest that stick into the ground, and you may be safer around the electricity...

If Armor wasn't very restricting why have the ACP in the first place?

Yup you'd be safer with the wires, but not by much.  There's a reason grounding wires for homes go fairly deep into the ground.     You did put a funny picture in my head of a mage running around with 6" spikes on their shoes. 

[ArawnNox]

Personally, I'll have the ACP affect spellcasting.  Not because it's metal and it somehow interferes in casting, but because armor is heavy and can restrict movements and such.

God help the mage that casts an electrical based attacks while in metal armor, in my game. 

It's been covered a lot so I'll make it brief:  Armor is not very restricting.  A week of practice will have a mage casting comfortably in everything but the gauntlets.

Add a couple wires down each leg from the chain vest that stick into the ground, and you may be safer around the electricity...

If Armor wasn't very restricting why have the ACP in the first place?

Yup you'd be safer with the wires, but not by much.  There's a reason grounding wires for homes go fairly deep into the ground.     You did put a funny picture in my head of a mage running around with 6" spikes on their shoes. 

There's a difference between range of movement and speed of movement. Armor is encumbering and heavy and will slow you down, but properly worn and taught how to move in it, then it shouldn't restrict the type of movements you do. After all, if you're movement was restricted, then knights would have a hard time mounting their horses, and I'm not talking about late medieval tilting plate.

[Grimace]

Personally, I'll have the ACP affect spellcasting.  Not because it's metal and it somehow interferes in casting, but because armor is heavy and can restrict movements and such.

God help the mage that casts an electrical based attacks while in metal armor, in my game. 

It's been covered a lot so I'll make it brief:  Armor is not very restricting.  A week of practice will have a mage casting comfortably in everything but the gauntlets.

Add a couple wires down each leg from the chain vest that stick into the ground, and you may be safer around the electricity...

If Armor wasn't very restricting why have the ACP in the first place?

Yup you'd be safer with the wires, but not by much.  There's a reason grounding wires for homes go fairly deep into the ground.     You did put a funny picture in my head of a mage running around with 6" spikes on their shoes. 

There's a difference between range of movement and speed of movement. Armor is encumbering and heavy and will slow you down, but properly worn and taught how to move in it, then it shouldn't restrict the type of movements you do. After all, if you're movement was restricted, then knights would have a hard time mounting their horses, and I'm not talking about late medieval tilting plate.

My point is that ACP affect all physical skills checks and that spell casting has physical elements to it.

PG: 112

Spellcasting is an obvious action and clearly visible to anyone
with line of sight to the caster; to conceal an attempt, the caster
must also make a Prestidigitation check opposed by Notice.

The feat Hidden Spells allows you to cast spells without muttering or gesturing.  There is most certainly a physical element to spell casting and it should be affected by ACP.

[Deral]

Personally, I'll have the ACP affect spellcasting.  Not because it's metal and it somehow interferes in casting, but because armor is heavy and can restrict movements and such.

God help the mage that casts an electrical based attacks while in metal armor, in my game.  

It's been covered a lot so I'll make it brief:  Armor is not very restricting.  A week of practice will have a mage casting comfortably in everything but the gauntlets.

Add a couple wires down each leg from the chain vest that stick into the ground, and you may be safer around the electricity...

If Armor wasn't very restricting why have the ACP in the first place?

Yup you'd be safer with the wires, but not by much.  There's a reason grounding wires for homes go fairly deep into the ground.     You did put a funny picture in my head of a mage running around with 6" spikes on their shoes.  

There's a difference between range of movement and speed of movement. Armor is encumbering and heavy and will slow you down, but properly worn and taught how to move in it, then it shouldn't restrict the type of movements you do. After all, if you're movement was restricted, then knights would have a hard time mounting their horses, and I'm not talking about late medieval tilting plate.

My point is that ACP affect all physical skills checks and that spell casting has physical elements to it.

PG: 112

Spellcasting is an obvious action and clearly visible to anyone
with line of sight to the caster; to conceal an attempt, the caster
must also make a Prestidigitation check opposed by Notice.

The feat Hidden Spells allows you to cast spells without muttering or gesturing.  There is most certainly a physical element to spell casting and it should be affected by ACP.

What if my character mutters and gestures while impressing someone?

Edit: More interesting to me is that ACP doesn't apply to Blend checks, so no matter the ACP, it doesn't make you easier to track unless you're using Sneak.

[Grimace]

Personally, I'll have the ACP affect spellcasting.  Not because it's metal and it somehow interferes in casting, but because armor is heavy and can restrict movements and such.

God help the mage that casts an electrical based attacks while in metal armor, in my game. 

It's been covered a lot so I'll make it brief:  Armor is not very restricting.  A week of practice will have a mage casting comfortably in everything but the gauntlets.

Add a couple wires down each leg from the chain vest that stick into the ground, and you may be safer around the electricity...

If Armor wasn't very restricting why have the ACP in the first place?

Yup you'd be safer with the wires, but not by much.  There's a reason grounding wires for homes go fairly deep into the ground.     You did put a funny picture in my head of a mage running around with 6" spikes on their shoes. 

There's a difference between range of movement and speed of movement. Armor is encumbering and heavy and will slow you down, but properly worn and taught how to move in it, then it shouldn't restrict the type of movements you do. After all, if you're movement was restricted, then knights would have a hard time mounting their horses, and I'm not talking about late medieval tilting plate.

My point is that ACP affect all physical skills checks and that spell casting has physical elements to it.

PG: 112

Spellcasting is an obvious action and clearly visible to anyone
with line of sight to the caster; to conceal an attempt, the caster
must also make a Prestidigitation check opposed by Notice.

The feat Hidden Spells allows you to cast spells without muttering or gesturing.  There is most certainly a physical element to spell casting and it should be affected by ACP.

What if my character mutters and gestures while impressing someone?

I imagine that flourishing (to make dramatic, sweeping gestures) while in plate mail would be more difficult than when not in plate mail.    I.E. Sweeping Bow before a beautiful woman to impress her.

[Grimace]

Edit: More interesting to me is that ACP doesn't apply to Blend checks, so no matter the ACP, it doesn't make you easier to track unless you're using Sneak.

I suppose you could use the Disguise modifier in someway for blend.

Disguise: A modifier to Disguise checks targeting the
wearer, whether they’re made to conceal the armor or not (it’s
more difficult to look like someone else, or some specific, when
you’re weighed down with protective gear). ‘Obvious’ means the
wearer can’t be disguised at all.

[Nezeray]

It's all part of the "Toolbox" idealogy.  If you want to have mages affected by ACP casting spells, go for it.  If you don't then leave it out.  They left some other rules vague for this same reason.

I'll let you armor up your mage if you want, just remember to a soldier, you look like a soldier Too.

James / Nezeray

[ArawnNox]

It's all part of the "Toolbox" idealogy.  If you want to have mages affected by ACP casting spells, go for it.  If you don't then leave it out.  They left some other rules vague for this same reason.

I'll let you armor up your mage if you want, just remember to a soldier, you look like a soldier Too.

James / Nezeray

Most of my friends dig the armored mage idea, so I wouldn't mess with it. Thanks for bringing up the toolbox fact, I keep forgetting that. Theres a part of me that adheres to RAW thanks to my DnD days. >.>
Run it however you want, people, if its fun at your table, more power to you.