DESTROY ALL MONSTERS!

[Mister Andersen]

I think you're reading the rules wrong on the cone. Pg 214 is referring to blast damage, which can be cone shaped. If the effect was meant to taper off, then it'd be limited to damage attacks just like regular blast and the pricing would be by increment, not range.

[vardeman]

I am slightly confused on how you determine how much damage each of the attacks does.  My attack does 4d8 for some esoteric reason and Molochor's cone attack does 10d12?

V

[Mister Andersen]

Becuase they're different attacks.

Look at pages 235 thru to 239, and you'll see that an NPC can have both natural attacks and extraordinary attacks.

Natural attacks have a smaller damage curve that's affected by both the NPCs size as well as the nature and the grade of the attack. The advantage however is that you can attack with them as many time per round as you can make attacks.

Extraordinary attacks scale differently, increasing in damage output dependant on the grade of the attack (I uses d4, V uses d12) and the threat level of the NPC, which in this instance means we're rolling 10 dice. However you can only make 1 extraordinary attack per round, regardless of how many you have.

The frenzy quality (page 233) messes with that a little, but it's an outlayer condition that doesn't really impact on the basic mechanics.

[vardeman]

The way I read it, instead of 4d8, it should be 3d12.  Please help me out here.

Each natural attack has a grade ranging from I to V (1 to 5).
At Grade I the NPC gains the attack listed on Table 6.4: Natural
Attacks (see page 237). At Grades II and IV the threat range
increases by 1 each, at Grade III the damage dice double, and at
the maximum Grade of V the damage dice triple.

My attack is a Gore V with keen x6 and AP x3.  The table lists a creature of size C or larger as doing 1d12 at Grade I.  Grade V triples it to 3d12.  Am I totally missing something here?

And for the cone attack I found:

Damage Attacks: The grade determines the dice used when
rolling damage (Grade I is d4, Grade II is d6, Grade III is d8,
Grade IV is d10, and Grade V is d12). For example, a Grade
IV damage attack inflicts 1d10 damage per 2 NPC Threat
Levels.

Grade V is d12, check.  1dX per 2 threat levels.  Are we at threat level 20?  I never noticed that being mentioned anywhere?

[Mister Andersen]

Glim's just read across the wrong line is all; it's the bite V attack that does 4d8. So yes, Hornetor does indeed do 3d12 acid, threats on a natural 20 (taking monstrous defence into account).

And Glim mentioned we were at threat level 20 in the very first post.

[glimmerrat]

p239 under area - cone specifically references page 214.

On page 14 it states that blast can take the shape of a cone, which also tapers off over distance

If the cone wasn't a blast attack, why would it directly reference the paragraph on blast rules in the text? I'm not being snarky, I just don't get it. 

[vardeman]

Glim's just read across the wrong line is all; it's the bite V attack that does 4d8. So yes, Hornetor does indeed do 3d12 acid, threats on a natural 20 (taking monstrous defence into account).

And Glim mentioned we were at threat level 20 in the very first post.

OK, thanks.

[Mister Andersen]

p239 under area - cone specifically references page 214.

On page 14 it states that blast can take the shape of a cone, which also tapers off over distance

If the cone wasn't a blast attack, why would it directly reference the paragraph on blast rules in the text? I'm not being snarky, I just don't get it. 

They were wanting to show the shape of a cone, and that blast damage works in the same fashion whether its omni or uni directional. It's poorly written and suffers from the decision not to repeat rules as needed, relying on the reader to ask themselves "Can a save attack taper off with a cone AoE?" given it obviously can't with a blast radius, rather than spelling it out clearly.

[glimmerrat]

Um... yeah, save attacks can't, but damage does taper off, and the attack is a damage attack, not a save attack.

Can we get a ruling on this or something from Pat or Alex? If it is poorly written then we really need clarification...

[Dhampire]

Um... yeah, save attacks can't, but damage does taper off, and the attack is a damage attack, not a save attack.

Can we get a ruling on this or something from Pat or Alex? If it is poorly written then we really need clarification...

Question: is the reference to the blast rules in the description of the Cone area upgrade (pg 239) intended to be a reference only to the shape of the cone, or that any attack (including one has to assume, save attacks) with the cone area upgrade tapers off like a blast radius?

It's just a reference to the shape - a way of getting double mileage out of the diagram.

Well, it's been ruled on.  Where do we go from here?  Are those sorts of attacks more powerful than you wanted in the game?  Do we just play on?

[glimmerrat]

Okay, i'll redo my turn and we'll see what's left of me... 

Thanks for the help Mr A.

[glimmerrat]

We have our first casualty!

*EDIT* Incidentally, that was just embarrassing...

[Ragnarok]

Out of town for a few days.  Will be back Friday.  Thanks.

[Gentry]

I should note that it's karma's turn in our battle. Probably sad for me, but to be fair, I figured I'd say Karna gets to act next.

[vardeman]

Waiting for the GM in our battle.

V