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Author Topic: No familiars for spellcasters?  (Read 1218 times)
Swordpriest
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« on: August 02, 2010, 11:26:12 PM »

Although I'm still in the process of reading the book (there's a lot of excellent material here to absorb for a newcomer!), it would appear that there are no rules for a spellcaster having a familiar. Since I'm looking to convert my campaign over from Pathfinder to this ruleset, it's a bit of an obstacle that there are no familiars. One of my players has a wizard and makes a lot of use of his familiar. If I tell him that his character loses his familiar, I know he's not going to want to switch over, and since he's probably the best player in the group, often generating a lot of subplots and thinking up inventive stuff that I steal for adventure ideas,  I'd prefer not to alienate him.  Wink

Am I missing something in the rulebook about familiars?   Huh?
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Krensky
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 11:47:29 PM »

Although I'm still in the process of reading the book (there's a lot of excellent material here to absorb for a newcomer!), it would appear that there are no rules for a spellcaster having a familiar. Since I'm looking to convert my campaign over from Pathfinder to this ruleset, it's a bit of an obstacle that there are no familiars. One of my players has a wizard and makes a lot of use of his familiar. If I tell him that his character loses his familiar, I know he's not going to want to switch over, and since he's probably the best player in the group, often generating a lot of subplots and thinking up inventive stuff that I steal for adventure ideas,  I'd prefer not to alienate him.  Wink

Am I missing something in the rulebook about familiars?   Huh?

Familiar = Personal Lieutenant.

For example:
Cat Familiar (Tiny Beast Walker — 55 XP): Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 12; SZ T (1×1, Reach 1); Spd 30 ft. ground; Init III; Atk III; Def III; Res III; Health III; Comp II; Skills: Acrobatics III, Blend III, Notice III, Sneak III; Qualities: always ready, banned action (Swim), feat (Ambush Basics, Ghost Basics), nocturnal, telepathic.
Attacks/Weapons: Bite II, Claw I × 2 (trip)

At TL 1 it looks like this:

Cat Familiar
Size: T
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 12
Initiative: +3
Melee  Attack: +0
Ranged Attack: +2
Defense: 15
Fort: +1
Ref:  +3
Will: +0
Competence: +0
Wounds: 10      Vitality: 15

Acrobatics +6
Blend +5
Notice +3
Sneak +6

Bite: 1d4 lethal, threat 19-20
Claw: 1d3 lethal, threat 20, trip
Claw: 1d3 lethal, threat 20, trip

It can flurry, isn't effected by suprise, makes quick ambush checks (although it's not getting a bonus to Tactics as built), gets a die of sneak attack, can move around a lot while hidden and is telepathic. On the downside, it's not a fan of doing important stuff during the day or swimming. If you don't mind it talking instead of telpathically speaking, drop telepathic and nocturnal, loosing the penalties in daylight.

Or, alternatively, make a new Spellcasting feat called Familiar by coping Animal Companion, limiting it to Beast instead of Animal and base it on Spellcasting instead of Terrain. Note that said familiar will get very butch, very fast since most Mages will have a pile of Spellcasting feats. Personally, I just use Personal Lieutenant.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 11:58:31 PM by Krensky » Logged

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Fortinbras
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 11:55:16 PM »

Yeah, Personal Lieutenant is the way to go. With GM approval, a Lieutenant can be any kind of NPC other than an ordinary animal so there's plenty of scope for building familiar spirits, demons, golems and magical talking beasts.

It's also worth noting that the Infernalist base class from the Call to Arms supplements gets an imp familiar as a class feature, but that's only going to work for a limited set of character concepts.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 12:36:05 AM by Fortinbras » Logged
Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 02:38:26 AM »

Official rules for familiars are coming in Spellbound. Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 02:45:19 AM »

Official rules for familiars are coming in Spellbound. Smiley

Well, it says that the release date is 'fall,' and next month is September, when the leaves start to turn in some northern climes. So, does that mean we can look forward to Spellbound then?  Grin

Thanks for the input, too, guys -- it's excellent that the system is flexible enough to easily build familiars, as you demonstrate, without the need for official rules for them!  Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 02:55:06 AM »

Official rules for familiars are coming in Spellbound. Smiley

Well, it says that the release date is 'fall,' and next month is September, when the leaves start to turn in some northern climes. So, does that mean we can look forward to Spellbound then?  Grin

Not quite. We'll have more news about Spellbound at GenCon. If you can't make it, be sure to check out the video on YouTube after the show.
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 03:49:19 AM »

banned action (Swim)

Cats are excellent swimmers. They just don't like it..

Also, the Familiar isn't really doing anything familiarish
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 06:17:24 AM »

I'd think familiar would simply be a spellcasting feat to the tune of Personal Lieutenant and Animal Companion. At least that way, it counts towards your spell save DCs.
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 07:02:19 AM »

banned action (Swim)

Cats are excellent swimmers. They just don't like it..

Also, the Familiar isn't really doing anything familiarish

First, it's not a cat. Cats are animals, not beasts. Second, define familiary.
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 04:03:35 PM »

Familiary: See through the familiars eyes, sense what he senses, cast spells through him etc.
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Gloria Finis
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 05:41:02 PM »

Or at least some sort of supernatural ability to help the master. 

Until such time as there are rules for familiars I think the easiest way to do combat harmless familiars (toads, snakes, etc) is to build them using the magic item rules.  For example:

Black cat:  Skill Ranks, Lesser (Spellcasting +1, Sneak +1) ( 8 ) Spell effects, Lesser(Feather Fall 1/scene, Scare 1/scene) (2) = 10 rep

Toad: NPC Quality: Spell Secret (Lift Curse I) (6-ish, winging it here) Spell effects, Lesser(Jump 1/scene, Water Breathing 1/scene) (4) = 10 rep

Since a starting character has 10 rep, he could afford a familiar.  If he wants something combat capable, I'd make it a gear feat, give him 25xp + 5 per spellcasting feat to buy the npc and 10 reputation to buy the effects on himself.  In all cases, I'd allow him to spend reputation to improve the effects he gets out of having a familiar.
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2010, 05:54:25 PM »

Familiary: See through the familiars eyes, sense what he senses, cast spells through him etc.

While those are D&Dism, they are not, necessarily, part of the concept of a familiar.

See Vlad and Loish, or the traditional witch's familiar from folklore.

Also, remember that PCs don't actually control PLs. Like any NPC they're under the control of the GM, so they can provide as much or as little advice of any value as the GM wants.
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2010, 06:21:43 PM »

Fair enough but (to the majority of people) that is what familiars are all about, we grew up more on DnD than Vlad and Loish (whomever they are! Wink )
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Gloria Finis
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2010, 06:58:13 PM »

Vladimir Taltos, assassin, thief, hero, petty nobleman, crime boss, and witch and his jhereg familiar, Loiosh from the Drageran Novels by Steven Brust. The first is titled Jhereg.

Good, dark high fantasy in the old style (meaning it's really science ficton Wink). Highly recokmended.
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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 12:23:31 AM »

Also, remember that PCs don't actually control PLs. Like any NPC they're under the control of the GM, so they can provide as much or as little advice of any value as the GM wants.

They don't? How does that square with:

Quote from: FC second printing page 108
Benefit: You control a non-animal NPC
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