Culture skill foci & nations/languages

[Psion]

Okay, getting somewhat specific with characters now, and I've tripped over something...

Is there a list anywhere of what countries or languages are covered by what regions of the culture skill's foci? There was one in Agency, but the regions have changed sinc then (Agency had a central Europe, where Greece was slotted, but SC 2.0 elimintated Central Europe... so is Greece East or West?)

[Aragathor]

It would be easier if you post the nations in question.
Greece would be east europe because of the fact that it lies in the south-eastern part of it.

Is there a list anywhere of what countries or languages are covered by what regions of the culture skill's foci?

Not that I have seen one.

[Psion]

It would be easier if you post the nations in question.
Greece would be east europe because of the fact that it lies in the south-eastern part of it.

If were are talking quick decisions, that's easy, but not the way I would necessarily slice it. I was wondering if there was an "official take".

[Morgenstern]

If were are talking quick decisions, that's easy, but not the way I would necessarily slice it. I was wondering if there was an "official take".

The official take is "use your judgement." We aren't going to be doing a list of nations for the various regional categories, and the whole point of the system is to not list languages because that ends up reducing character functionality, not increasing it. The language is irrelevant, the ability to get by and be understood while operating in the area is what is being offered .

Cultures gives you a set of 'theaters of operation' where you can be qualifed. From the player perspective, if you aren't qualified for an area, accept that you will suffer some penalties while on a mission there and move on, rather than trying to claim qualification in another area should let you not suffer such penalties - it doesn't.

Looks like a FAQ item to me .

[Psion]

The official take is "use your judgement." We aren't going to be doing a list of nations for the various regional categories, and the whole point of the system is to not list languages because that ends up reducing character functionality, not increasing it. The language is irrelevant, the ability to get by and be understood while operating in the area is what is being offered .

Cultures gives you a set of 'theaters of operation' where you can be qualifed.

Okay... let's say that I have a mission in Greece. How do I tell if a character with "Western Europe" can communicate with the locals? I could make the call, but thereafter I'd feel the need to be consistent. And when I want consistency, I want it codified in, you guessed it, the rules (or at least my house rules...)

In this particular case, I'm just looking for the "right" focus for a character with a Greek background.

[Morgenstern]

What's your preference?

No matter which you choose, you'll have to mention it to your players so you might as well choose the one you'll remember causally .

[Psion]

What's your preference?

Is that a question or an answer? 

Honestly, you know the first place I looked for an answer to this? The HERO core book. The book has a table that shows associations between language groups. I figured that Greek would either have more in common with the romantic and germanic languages of western Europe or the baltic and slavic heritage of Eastern Europe. It turns out, at least according to the book, that Greek is in the same large language groups as all of those, but not more tightly associated with any of them. So I'm torn there.

Looking at it from the game balance standpoint more than anything real world, players are much more likely to get use out of the Western Europe as it stands, with exciting espionage destinations like Scandinavia, Germany, France, and Italy, than they are Eastern Europe, so I might throw Greece in with Eastern Europe to make it more desirable.

But if you use Russia and the Baltic states more than me, you might think differently.

[Antilles]

Wikipedia shows many different ways of dividing Europe into east and west, and few, if any, include Greece in the Eastern part. F'r instance, the United Nations view Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovakia and Ukraine as the countries that make up Eastern Europe.

[Morgenstern]

What's your preference?

Is that a question or an answer? 

It's a question, but the answer should be the one that fits what you are doing with the game. The consequences of the decision are what;s important, not the decision itself.

Honestly, you know the first place I looked for an answer to this? The HERO core book. The book has a table that shows associations between language groups. I figured that Greek would either have more in common with the romantic and germanic languages of western Europe or the baltic and slavic heritage of Eastern Europe. It turns out, at least according to the book, that Greek is in the same large language groups as all of those, but not more tightly associated with any of them. So I'm torn there.

Exactly. Greece is a border state by any of several metrics. Linguistic similarity may be more important the geographical proximity depending on how you look at Cultures.

Looking at it from the game balance standpoint more than anything real world, players are much more likely to get use out of the Western Europe as it stands, with exciting espionage destinations like Scandinavia, Germany, France, and Italy, than they are Eastern Europe, so I might throw Greece in with Eastern Europe to make it more desirable.

But if you use Russia and the Baltic states more than me, you might think differently.

Which is sort of my point. Cultures foci sets up operational areas, so it depends on if you want Greece to seem like an exotic destination relative to the players' ussual haunts or just more of a fringe area (geographically) but still part of their normal circuit.

[Psion]

Wikipedia shows many different ways of dividing Europe into east and west, and few, if any, include Greece in the Eastern part. F'r instance, the United Nations view Belarus, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovakia and Ukraine as the countries that make up Eastern Europe.

Hmmm. The maps sounds like a pretty good functional guide.

[Psion]

Exactly. Greece is a border state by any of several metrics. Linguistic similarity may be more important the geographical proximity depending on how you look at Cultures.

Well, sure. As you may or may not know, I house rule languages (and the cultures skill) in my home game extensively.

But as I am starting to participate more in LSpy, I'm a little more concerned about what the common (or if any existed, official) perception is. 

[Aragathor]

I'm a little more concerned about what the common (or if any existed, official) perception is.

If it's logical it goes?

the answer should be the one that fits what you are doing with the game.

[spinningdice]

Personally I would have just put it in Western Europe, though if a player was being awkward (actually I can't think of a time  my players wouldn't take Western Europe over Eastern, but hey), I'd probably allow Eastern to qualify.

But then for me, cultures isn't an aspect I use much...

[Morgenstern]

But as I am starting to participate more in LSpy, I'm a little more concerned about what the common (or if any existed, official) perception is. 

Actually, I'm workshopping with some writers right now to bring out official Crafty Games published missions for Spycraft, and we're trying to identify stuff that every scene should tell the GC. You've raised a good point that "what cultures zone is this taking place in?" is a question we can and probably should nail down as a matter of format. Then its just a bullet point that's never in doubt .

[afrodave]

I try to let the culture define the geography of where the blurry nations go.  For instance even though Greece is farther east of the Balkan Nations, I have Greece as  part of Western Europe and the Balkans as part of Eastern Europe. With Europe I tend to think Old Soviet bloc (warsaw pact) gets Eastern Europe and old NATO nations get Western. 
Turkey in many ways is both Eastern Europe and Western Asia.
Is Pakistan Western Asia, while India is Southern Asia?  (that's how I break it)
hence so many socio-political differances...