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Author Topic: Fantasy Craft Second Printing Q&A Thread  (Read 137341 times)
Desertpuma
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« Reply #960 on: September 28, 2011, 12:42:53 PM »

In regards to the first one, it is entirely something allows people to customize aspects of your game. I would suggest you all agree in your gaming group to handle it one way and go from there.

The effects of villain critical failures have always been up to the GM all the way back to Spycraft 1.0 or Spycraft Classic. But if as a group, you spent 3 and the GM only dropped his initiative by 3, I'd ask for a stiffer outcome or to get 2 of the Action Dice back. Typically for 3 AD spent a weapon will break or the villain get seriously wrong information or completely buy into the story you are telling him. I've had players crit succeed vs the villain crit fail on a skill test of diplomacy, intimidation, sneak vs search or notice. Players faces really light up in moments like that.

Important thing to remember: the Crafty game system, Mastercraft, is about three very core concepts: balance amongst all players, including the GM, telling a good story, and everyone having fun. If those three are not met, something's wrong. So the GM should be as willing to really mess up his villain if the players activate the crit fail as he is to activate their crit fails. Sometimes, just sometimes, taking the failure makes for a much more fun and interesting story for everyone.

These are probably one of the most friendly forums of any game on the net. We really help each other here. Welcome to Crafty Games.
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« Reply #961 on: September 28, 2011, 01:12:22 PM »

1. Ok, so no officially-sanctioned way the mechanic works, then.

We like to keep certain things open to table rules.

Quote
2. I meant multi-die activations, but I notice now that Jinx says "costs one less die", so I assume that means multi-die activations are possible.  I didn't see any charts in the book, just the one set of examples of things that could happen to a PC at each die level, so I guess it's just up to the GM to determine an appropriate result.  I was just worried that I'd say, "I want to spend 3 dice to activate his critical failure", and the GM could respond, "okay, his initiative round drops by 3" or something similarly useless without any recourse.  Again, I guess it's up to the GM.

You can apply the same rules to villains in this case as heroes. Puma's right, though - the GM gets to determine the exact effects and whether two or more dice (or, in fact, whether any dice) may be spent to activate criticals.

Quote
3) If you use Fortune Favors the Bold (+2 to action die rolls) as a simple benchmark, Lady Luck's Smile seems kind of underpowered.  Best-case, with d4 action dice, you still end up gaining an expected value of only +1 2/3, and it drops to about +1 once you go to d6 action dice, and less beyond that.  Is this just a natural diminishing returns feat that you take to try to squeeze every last bonus out of action dice in a focused build?  It seems like it should also grant an additional +1 to be balanced relative to FFtB (in which case it would be more useful for d4s like the bonus dice, but less useful for large dice).  Similarly, Fortune's Fool seems strictly worse than Fortunate, since the maximum number of dice you can earn is capped at what you get automatically from Fortunate.  Am I missing anything?

The effects of these three feats are very different, and while they're not precisely balanced against one another statistically, they serve very different play styles...

Fortunate statistically diminishes as your character levels, though not by much, and not universally (a bonus die used for anything other than boosting a result is just as useful no matter what level you are).

Fortune Favors the Bold also statistically diminishes as your character levels, but always guarantees you a minimum action die result when rolling, which can be especially useful with certain boosting and ability combinations.

Lady Luck's Smile again diminishes statistically (noticing a trend?) but operates a lot like an increased threat range, making every die roll more exciting.

So it really depends on what you're after while building your character and playing the game.

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« Reply #962 on: September 28, 2011, 02:52:47 PM »

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3) If you use Fortune Favors the Bold (+2 to action die rolls) as a simple benchmark, Lady Luck's Smile seems kind of underpowered.  Best-case, with d4 action dice, you still end up gaining an expected value of only +1 2/3, and it drops to about +1 once you go to d6 action dice, and less beyond that.  Is this just a natural diminishing returns feat that you take to try to squeeze every last bonus out of action dice in a focused build?  It seems like it should also grant an additional +1 to be balanced relative to FFtB (in which case it would be more useful for d4s like the bonus dice, but less useful for large dice).  Similarly, Fortune's Fool seems strictly worse than Fortunate, since the maximum number of dice you can earn is capped at what you get automatically from Fortunate.  Am I missing anything?

The effects of these three feats are very different, and while they're not precisely balanced against one another statistically, they serve very different play styles...

Fortunate statistically diminishes as your character levels, though not by much, and not universally (a bonus die used for anything other than boosting a result is just as useful no matter what level you are).

Fortune Favors the Bold also statistically diminishes as your character levels, but always guarantees you a minimum action die result when rolling, which can be especially useful with certain boosting and ability combinations.

Lady Luck's Smile again diminishes statistically (noticing a trend?) but operates a lot like an increased threat range, making every die roll more exciting.

So it really depends on what you're after while building your character and playing the game.

Welcome to the boards!

Thanks for the responses and welcomes, everyone.  I wanted to point out that I wasn't comparing Fortunate to FFtB or LLS, which are obviously completely different, but rather Fortune's Fool, which is comparable to (and, as far as I can tell, strictly worse than) Fortunate.

Lady Luck's Smile is a more interesting feat, but I have a hard time taking it over FFtB when it's always going to produce a lower expected outcome and is only really "better" if you're attempting a desperate roll that couldn't succeed without an action die exploding (e.g., needing a 25 on d20+d4).
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« Reply #963 on: September 28, 2011, 02:58:13 PM »

The question isn't which one should you take, but how many. Characters with FFtB, LLS, Fortunate, AND Fortune's Fool basically rock at everything they try.
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« Reply #964 on: September 28, 2011, 03:06:39 PM »

very true
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« Reply #965 on: September 28, 2011, 03:42:43 PM »

Okay, here's a funny question. When a special character with tough ignores a critical hit, does that mean they take normal damage, or no damage?
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Desertpuma
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« Reply #966 on: September 28, 2011, 03:53:20 PM »

As I recall, Tough nullifies a failure for Standards ... I would say they take normal damage. The Standard took normal damage but the Tough nullifies his failure.
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« Reply #967 on: September 28, 2011, 04:03:11 PM »

Okay, here's a funny question. When a special character with tough ignores a critical hit, does that mean they take normal damage, or no damage?

The Tough text is pretty clear on this, actually:

Quote from: pg 235
If  the  NPC  is  standard,  he ignores the effect of 1 failed Damage save per scene per grade. If hes special, he may ignore all damage from a single critical hit once per scene per grade.
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« Reply #968 on: September 28, 2011, 04:06:02 PM »

As I recall, Tough nullifies a failure for Standards ... I would say they take normal damage. The Standard took normal damage but the Tough nullifies his failure.
But would it also nullify the failure resetting damage back to zero?
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« Reply #969 on: September 28, 2011, 04:13:44 PM »

The Tough text is pretty clear on this, actually:
If hes special, he may ignore all damage from a single critical hit once per scene per grade.

That's actually not clear. If it said, "Once per scene, when struck by a critical hit, he may ignore all damage from the attack," that would be pretty clear. But saying all damage from a critical hit makes me wonder if the damage from a critical hit is different from the damage of the attack. ... You know, it's kind of strange that activating a critical hit could actually result in no damage when ordinarily it would result in damage.
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Antilles
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« Reply #970 on: September 28, 2011, 04:14:20 PM »

I'd say yes. 'Ignores the effect' to me implies that the effect still happens, only the NPC ignores the 'drop dead/unconscious' part of the effect. Associated effects, like resetting the damage counter, would still happen.
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« Reply #971 on: September 28, 2011, 04:26:54 PM »

The Tough text is pretty clear on this, actually:
If hes special, he may ignore all damage from a single critical hit once per scene per grade.

That's actually not clear. If it said, "Once per scene, when struck by a critical hit, he may ignore all damage from the attack," that would be pretty clear. But saying all damage from a critical hit makes me wonder if the damage from a critical hit is different from the damage of the attack. ... You know, it's kind of strange that activating a critical hit could actually result in no damage when ordinarily it would result in damage.

If you're looking at it this way, then the bit on how criticals work (pg 207) would turn it back towards a special character taking no damage from an ignored critical, since you're not ignoring the effect of the critical, just the damage, and the critical's effect is to "ignore vitality," not deal a new set of damage, just bypass.
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« Reply #972 on: September 28, 2011, 04:41:37 PM »

Yeah, I'm confused as to how this is confusing. The way I read it:

Tough on a standard - Critical hit effect is auto fail vs the damage. Tough means that the standard character resets damage to 0 and keeps going, as stated on page 207. If the character had only one grade of Tough, then the next failed damage save kills the character. Multiple grades of tough means this effect happens once for each grade. Multiple AD may be spent to burn through multiple grades of Tough.

Tough on a special - Critical hit effect is damage moves to wounds instead of vitality. Tough means that special characters get to ignore that damage completely - it just doesn't happen. That's what makes tough on a player's mount such bad news... the rider (player character) can ignore one crit per grade completely. No worrys about it going to wounds or anything. It's gone baby.

So how are you reading these differently?
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« Reply #973 on: September 28, 2011, 04:54:26 PM »

Yeah, I'm confused as to how this is confusing. The way I read it:

Tough on a standard - Critical hit effect is auto fail vs the damage. Tough means that the standard character resets damage to 0 and keeps going, as stated on page 207. If the character had only one grade of Tough, then the next failed damage save kills the character. Multiple grades of tough means this effect happens once for each grade. Multiple AD may be spent to burn through multiple grades of Tough.

Tough on a special - Critical hit effect is damage moves to wounds instead of vitality. Tough means that special characters get to ignore that damage completely - it just doesn't happen. That's what makes tough on a player's mount such bad news... the rider (player character) can ignore one crit per grade completely. No worrys about it going to wounds or anything. It's gone baby.

So how are you reading these differently?

Ignoring all damage from a critical hit could imply ignoring the change in damage, since the damage of a critical hit is Wounds.
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« Reply #974 on: September 28, 2011, 05:25:58 PM »

Ignoring all damage from a critical hit could imply ignoring the change in damage, since the damage of a critical hit is Wounds.

The damage doesn't change. Lethal is still lethal, electrical is electrical, etc. For simplicity's sake, tough basically invalidates the effects of a critical hit - that means damage in the case of specials, auto-save failure on standards, and any benefits triggered from a critical hit on both. It's effectively like the hit inflicted 0 damage instead (which also means accumulated damage would NOT be reset, Edge-gaining effects that trigger "on a hit" would still work, etc).
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