Fantasy Craft Second Printing Q&A Thread

[Morgenstern]

Thanks for your answer. Just a few comments :

Well, the insight bonus from Basic skil mastery isn't included in your "Intimidate Bonus" (only ranks and Strength modifier) so the only way to boost your Spell Defense is Prodigal skill (more ranks) or a high Strength.

Actually, it is included. Your 'intimidate ranks' is just ranks. Your 'intimidate bonus' is all your modifiers, including the specified attribute modifer. So there are a number of ways you could push the bonus up.

Even, if at level 10 I am facing a spellcaster, he will cast level 4 spells so he will have to beat a 25 Spellcasting DD if he wants to affect me (Spell Defense or not).

Spell defense is about making lower level spells as difficult as higher level spells. Your opponent might have prefered to use a simpler, more rleable spell, possibly to conserve spell points. A solid spell defense takes away some of his options, or at least makes them unappealing. Your definition of "nothing" is flawed .

[Morgenstern]

Unless it is specifically stated otherwise, everything in Crafty games stack. Everything.

Uh, bonuses stack. Flat values... not so much.

If you had 2 abilities that said +2 (unnamed) bonus to spell defense, yeah, stackage. Two abilites that say "Spell defense 23" gives you a spell defense of 23 .

(this is basically the same as two abilites that give you a threat range of 19-20 don't stack with each other, while abilites that give you +1 threat range stack with each other and the best flat value available to you)

[Morgenstern]

SKILL BONUS
A character’s bonus with a skill is equal to his ranks in it + modifier with the skill’s key attribute (which may be negative).

It also says on the same page that the player makes a skill check by "rolling 1d20 and adding his appropriate skill bonus" (emphasis mine). So I would certainly rule the insight bonus applies as much anywhere else that says 'skill bonus' as it does there.

Yeah... because if skill bonus didn't include other modifers then no other bonus to skill checks works... ever. I'm pretty sure that's not the intent .

[Krensky]

Uh, bonuses stack. Flat values... not so much.

If you had 2 abilities that said +2 (unnamed) bonus to spell defense, yeah, stackage. Two abilites that say "Spell defense 23" gives you a spell defense of 23 .

But that runs counter to earlier answers regarding the stacking of Armor or Tough Hide with Magicly granted DR or from Abilities like Fortunes of War.

[Morgenstern]

But that runs counter to earlier answers regarding the stacking of Armor or Tough Hide with Magicly granted DR or from Abilities like Fortunes of War.

*shrug* What's counter about DR saying "these stack" and Tough hide saying "this stacks in an extremely limited fasion"? Heck, even DR has exceptions that DR from armor doesn't stack with itself.

Trying to say there is a general rule that everything stacks is simply not true. The most basic rule is "bonuses stack, set values do not - and both of those have specific exceptions spelled out." The biggest immediate exceptions to that being named bonuses do not stack (and that in turn has an exception that Dodge bonuses do stack...).

Set values are formated as set values specifically to avoid stacking. The threat ranges in the skill feats, the increased skill rank caps, and pretty much every instance of spell defense that I'm aware of are all set values not numbers with +/- in front of them. They do not say bonus. They are not bonuses.

[QDI]

Spell defense is about making lower level spells as difficult as higher level spells. Your opponent might have prefered to use a simpler, more rleable spell, possibly to conserve spell points. A solid spell defense takes away some of his options, or at least makes them unappealing. Your definition of "nothing" is flawed .

Well, that's not really true:

However, Spell Defense has bugger all to do with spell level, just casting DC. If an NPC is capable of casting a level 4 spell reliably, he's also able to bypass a <25 Spell Defense reliably, no matter what level spell he casts.

[/s]

Ok, I can see why. Still not so appealing in my mind.

As for the question of "Skill bonus", the problem is the definition given in the book, which is very clear. I don't see how it could be an omission and I don't want to fight with my DM on how this clear definition goes against the rules as intended...

Sorry, didn't knw who Morgenstern was

[Krensky]

As for the question of "Skill bonus", the problem is the definition given in the book, which is very clear. I don't see how it could be an omission and I don't want to fight with my DM on how this clear definition goes against the rules as intended...

No fighting needed. Point him to Morgenstern's (aka Scott Gearin) post on it. He just has to decide if he wants to use the book, or the developer's commentary on the intent.

[Krensky]

But that runs counter to earlier answers regarding the stacking of Armor or Tough Hide with Magicly granted DR or from Abilities like Fortunes of War.

*shrug* What's counter about DR saying "these stack" and Tough hide saying "this stacks in an extremely limited fasion"? Heck, even DR has exceptions that DR from armor doesn't stack with itself.

Trying to say there is a general rule that everything stacks is simply not true. The most basic rule is "bonuses stack, set values do not - and both of those have specific exceptions spelled out." The biggest immediate exceptions to that being named bonuses do not stack (and that in turn has an exception that Dodge bonuses do stack...).

Set values are formated as set values specifically to avoid stacking. The threat ranges in the skill feats, the increased skill rank caps, and pretty much every instance of spell defense that I'm aware of are all set values not numbers with +/- in front of them. They do not say bonus. They are not bonuses.

Nothing really, it just clarifies the issue and firmly sticks DR back into the special exception category.

[Morgenstern]

It may be helpful for people comming from 3.X Dungeouns and dragons to know how spell defense came about - it is essentially D&Ds spell resistance folded directly into the spellcasting check. In D&D there is a caster level check vs the resistance to see if the spell works on a critter with spell resistance. Since the Mastercraft spellcasting check is in essence a caster level check (with a couple of whistles and bells), one roll can do double duty to see if A) you cast well enough to persuade the universe to allow your spell to happen (basic DC) and B) cast well enough to affect something that is particularly not into be worked over by magic (spell defense DC).

Spell defense really does do nothing at 13 and below, which is why abilities that grant it tend to wave big numbers around (and part of the reason adding those numbers together directly is a bad idea ). The Spell Defense = skill bonus type doesn't kick in right away. If you really work at it it probably starts having an impact around level 4 (I'm thinking +3 from attribute, 7 ranks, and then feats piled on that). But it is something that will grow over time. It's pretty much running 10 points behind a similar commitment to spellcasting bonus, so its always going to be a modest defense against magic dablers, not fullblown hunt/kill mages. That's why its a part of a cluster of benefits making up a feat- its not intended to be a major benefit. Major spell defense values tend to look a lot more like Career Level +20. Starting at 21 and scaling up to 40 is a strong statment about magic bouncing off of you, and abilities like that are often confined to a single school because they shut down all but the most focused casters.

[Morgenstern]

As for the question of "Skill bonus", the problem is the definition given in the book, which is very clear. I don't see how it could be an omission and I don't want to fight with my DM on how this clear definition goes against the rules as intended...
Sorry, didn't knw who Morgenstern was

I'm not invested with awesome divine fiat these days, just trying to be helpful . Adding in those missing pluses in will make the ability slightly usefull rather than completely marginal.

[Krensky]

You may not have divine fiat, but to my mind anyway, you can make definitive commentary on the RAI for the main book.

[QDI]

I'm not invested with awesome divine fiat these days, just trying to be helpful . Adding in those missing pluses in will make the ability slightly usefull rather than completely marginal.

Still thanks a lot for taking the time to explain us!

[Fastidious Monk]

This came up in our game last night...

A character with Thick Hide was attacked by Acid Damage, but I wasn't sure how Acid interacted with Thick Hide. 

I understand Thick Hide is considered wearing partial armor you can't take off.  Under Acid Damage on page 210 it says both the character and his armor take the damage, if the damage is higher than the DR.  If it is not, just the armor takes the damage.  The damage was less than his DR, but what happens to the Thick Hide?  I could not find any saves for it.  Do you assign an Construction score to it and call for a save and it "heals" over time?  Or, is it just a benefit from having Thick Hide and "immune to Acid Damage" under the DR?

Thanks

[Crafty_Alex]

Since I wouldn't imagine the character would lose his skin, I would ignore the acid damage effects on destroying armor.

[Sletchman]

Fortunately, not many other spells require a hit (which means they rarely need to sweat DR in the process).

Just to clarify, are you saying that because Magic Missile doesn't require a hit, it also doesn't have to worry about DR?  (Per RAW only, obviously a GM can call as they wish.)
[/quote]

Don't wanna be a pest - but I'd really like an answer to this, if possible.