Back to Crafty Games Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 28, 2014, 04:44:16 AM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Welcome to the Crafty Games Forums!

Note to New Members: To combat spam, we have instituted new rules: you must post 5 replies to existing threads before you can create new threads.

+  Crafty Games Forum
|-+  Products
| |-+  Fantasy Craft
| | |-+  [LABORATORY] The final Spellbound spells
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] Go Down Print
Author Topic: [LABORATORY] The final Spellbound spells  (Read 465 times)
Morgenstern
Control
******
Posts: 5323



View Profile
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2014, 02:26:02 AM »

Willful scenery destruction does NOT seem like a likely component to me.

It's an 8th level creation spell (not conversion). The core concept is it adds stuff. Now you can make a good argument that paving over could be destructive in the "covered in earth/washed away by flashfloods" bit of over exuberance, but this seems to have a name and discipline that overall points to a nice guy spell not a poorly masked nuclear option. Several nuclear options already being available amongst 8th level spells, I'm sure Wink.

"Seven days" is usually for making a place you saw was good and then some resting Smiley. Maybe it should be explicit in producing an Eden-like oasis, with some discretion on layout? Maybe throw around the word "idyllic" a bit.

Alakazam! I just made the almighty camping spot, go rest up and get some buffs Smiley.

 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 02:27:35 AM by Morgenstern » Logged

At your own pace: Do. It. Now.
How about some pie? - Heroes of the Expanse
pawsplay
Powered By Publisher
Control
******
Posts: 1428


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2014, 02:58:49 AM »

It seems like it would be hard to narrate a spell that can raise hills and sink swamps, but can't knock over a cottage or even ground a houseboat. Seven Days seems like it should really let you paint in broad strokes. In my mind, the way to limit it is to specify what can be done. Call From Beyond lets you summon a being who might be able to cast earthquake; to me, fretting about it being a Creation spell just seems like quibbling when it is already limited by the casting time and the need to be indirect.
Logged
Antilles
Mastermind
Control
*****
Posts: 2957


Do I look like a people person?


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2014, 05:12:32 AM »

Gah, was writing this at work and got sidetracked for a couple hours, so Morg has already made most of my points, and more eloquently as well. Oh well, not gonna waste the time writing up all this.
---
It's totally fine for this spell not to have a combat application, especially given that out of both the 'parent' spells only Move Water has what you'd call combat applications, and using a Concentration spell to effectively create the aquatic version of difficult terrain.

Likewise with including an Earthquake-like effect into the spell, there should be some mention of what happens to those stuck in the area when everything's happening, but a straight-up 'take a bunch of damage+sprawled' doesn't feel right to me. Guess it should depend on how exactly the spell will work, how long it will take, if the entire area is changed at once, etc. I think the 'cannot damage structures' bit should be kept in, if only to encourage indirectly messing with them (i.e. creating a deep and wide moat around the structure).

Now, that said, looking over the initial spell again... 'create new terrain'. Is this spell supposed to be a generic 'magical terraforming' spell, or is it more a 'create land/water/vegetation where there is none' type deal? Hammering down exactly what we're expecting of this would be step 1, I think. Given that most other Creation spells creating something new wholecloth (acid, clouds, food/water etc) it would make sense to follow that guideline. Though that raises some interesting questions... Plopping a mountain down on a empty plain fits the bill, but what if you've already got the mountain and want a plain?
Logged

"After all is said and done, more is said than done."
- Aesop
The_Grand_User
Operative
****
Posts: 300



View Profile
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2014, 11:05:30 AM »

It seems like it would be hard to narrate a spell that can raise hills and sink swamps, but can't knock over a cottage or even ground a houseboat. Seven Days seems like it should really let you paint in broad strokes. In my mind, the way to limit it is to specify what can be done. Call From Beyond lets you summon a being who might be able to cast earthquake; to me, fretting about it being a Creation spell just seems like quibbling when it is already limited by the casting time and the need to be indirect.

I'm picturing it working like many terrain editors for games, where when you change the terrain shape, buildings, trees, loose rocks, and the like move with it.
Logged

I'm a programmer by trade, of course I like to tinker! Cheesy

"I don't want to fight dragons." - Hiccup

Drakes, the very best part about FC ^_^

I'm designing my own RPG, The Dual20 system! Cheesy
aegis
Fantasy Craft Playtester
Control
******
Posts: 1032


A little dab'll do ya.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2014, 12:56:05 PM »

Just to throw my 2 cents.

I'm picturing this as in Frozen, where the Ice Queen makes somewhat mountainous terrain permanently arctic (but not damaging anything), or as in the Lords of the Rings, where Sauron may have turned (I said may) nice-looking plains into a deadly swamp, or conversely as in a D&D universe whose name I can't remember where oasis of "plains" are magically created from a world-spanning desert. Many mechanics in FC are affected by Terrain type, including some class abilities, feats, Travel time, etc. So imagining a spell that affects all this, in a broad, long-range, and enduring kind of way seems to me like a good 8th-level candidate.

So I would go for something as wide in range, duration, and area as possible (could you make it a Curse, even as an option ?), but whose effects are strictly limited to changes in Terrain type, or other cosmetic changes (creating arable lands in a desert, a lake of drinkable water, etc.). You could even imagine a permanent positive/negative morale effect associated with the land, or a disease, or a curse ... The question I'm still struggling with is weather and extreme conditions. Minor effects like a permanent smog/snow might be of interest and make sense, but creating a volcano, that's basically Control Weather V, or even expensive narrative control, right? So that should be prevented somehow. But to be honest, I don't know how ...   Smiley
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 01:00:50 PM by aegis » Logged
paddyfool
Control
******
Posts: 1942


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2014, 01:11:21 PM »

I see this as the kind of spell that can play into the nation-building / -wrecking plans of PCs.  Bringing feast or famine, or creating an area that may act as sanctuary, trap, fortress, or simple personal imprint on the land.

e.g.:
- Dividing a country in two with a jagged and forbidding mountain range.
- Raising an island paradise, or indeed a small archipelago, from the seas
- Creating a high plateau, with its own unique ecosystem.
- Lush, verdant fields of crops in the desert
- Twisting mazes, populated by venomous beasts, surmounted by a high and forbidding peak (for your mage's tower)
- All the buildings of a new city, plus water sources, harbour, surrounding fields, links to neighbouring roads.... everything but inhabitants.

And if we went with a strict "seven days" analogy, this would also allow the creation of people to occupy said land... but that could really be going too far.

Mechanical benefits your character could get from this land... perhaps while on it, you could gain bonuses to survival checks and ambush checks?  Or you could have a free pathfinder basics feat for the terrain type?

Mechanical representations of the general features: perhaps in addition to declaring the terrain type, you could add a selection from "up to half your caster level" of the following, with a script allowing others at the discretion of the GM, e.g.:
- Land of plenty: [Bonus to foraging checks, crop production, may not be combined with Barren wastes]
- Barren wastes: [penalty to same, may not be combined with Land of plenty]
- Maze: [penalty to navigation checks]
- Signposts: [bonus to navigation checks]
- Ample cover:
- Scarce cover:
- Adverse weather:
- Benign weather:
- Hidden tunnels:
- Savage beasts: (bonus to Nature's Ally spells)
- Easy summoning: (bonus to Call From Beyond spells)
- Hard summoning: (penalty to Call From Beyond spells)
- Easy casting: (bonus to spells in general)
- Hard casting: (penalty to spells in general... possibly excluding your character?)
- Sacred land: (bonus to those who share your alignment, penalty to opposing alignments; requires alignment)

Some of these are more potent than others, and might have to count as multiple picks...

Apologies if I've gone overboard with this.  It's mainly just a load of ideas with little critical analysis.
Logged
Crafty_Pat
Crafty Staff
Control
*****
Posts: 9492


End of the World? Donít believe the hype.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2014, 03:56:45 PM »

Likewise with including an Earthquake-like effect into the spell, there should be some mention of what happens to those stuck in the area when everything's happening, but a straight-up 'take a bunch of damage+sprawled' doesn't feel right to me. Guess it should depend on how exactly the spell will work, how long it will take, if the entire area is changed at once, etc. I think the 'cannot damage structures' bit should be kept in, if only to encourage indirectly messing with them (i.e. creating a deep and wide moat around the structure).

If it were me (it's not - I've abdicated decision-making power on this title), I would argue that it's not so much about defining the effect on characters in the target area as defining their effect on the spell. As I mentioned earlier, some kind of group save is definitely in order (will of those in the target area vs. the caster's will and spellcasting ability), and after that if the spell takes then any specific effects on those in the target area should definitely be left up to the GC. There are too many possibilities and combinations to even attempt to cover them with hard-coded rules.
Logged

Patrick Kapera
Crafty Games
www.crafty-games.com

UPDATES/PRESS INFO
Mailing List: http://bit.ly/14FJIw7
RSS: www.crafty-games.com/needtoknow
Facebook: www.facebook.com/craftygames
Twitter: www.twitter.com/Crafty_Games
YouTube: www.youtube.com/craftyhomeoffice

In game terms, reality is b
Pages: 1 2 [3] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!