Two questions on Fantasy Craft....

[Morfedel]

Ok, so I'm weighing in on the idea of picking up FC. Frankly, I like 4e D&d more than 3.x, but it looks like FC might be fabulous for it's flexibility, and I have a number of friends who refuse to play 4e.

So, I am waiting til the second printing comes out, but in the meantime, I have the opportunity thumb through it via a copy that a distant acquaintance at the game store I go to lets me look at when we are both there.

Two things I wonder about:

A couple of specialties, such as Sorcerer and Wizard: These are basically worthless unless you have casting levels, which you only get from the Priest and Mage clases, correct?

Second, how well would the Black Company Campaign Setting / True Sorcery magic rules be ported over into this system?

Thanks in advance!

[MilitiaJim]

I'm with your friends who dislike 4e, but that's me.

Sorcerer is still good, species feats are good stuff.  In a setting with no magic, a "wizard" would just be a charlatan.

Black Company would settle in rules wise very well.  The Bads are all special NPCs, though some of the wasteland creatures are rather odd.  It has been a few years since I read their tales, and I know not of the "True Sorcery," but it shouldn't be too bad.  Most of the folks with serious magic are NPCs anyway.

[Krensky]

Sorcer and Wizard aren't pointless without access to the Spellcasting skill, but they loose a lot of their utility. Note that Priests don't get access to Spellcasting by default.

I've looked at True Sorcery, but I don't recall a lot of it. You'd likely need to recreate their caster class to get the most use out of it.

[Blankbeard]

Ok, so I'm weighing in on the idea of picking up FC. Frankly, I like 4e D&d more than 3.x, but it looks like FC might be fabulous for it's flexibility, and I have a number of friends who refuse to play 4e.

So, I am waiting til the second printing comes out, but in the meantime, I have the opportunity thumb through it via a copy that a distant acquaintance at the game store I go to lets me look at when we are both there.

Two things I wonder about:

A couple of specialties, such as Sorcerer and Wizard: These are basically worthless unless you have casting levels, which you only get from the Priest and Mage clases, correct?

Second, how well would the Black Company Campaign Setting / True Sorcery magic rules be ported over into this system?

Thanks in advance!

I can't speak to the second question but on the first I can give you an opinion.   If you are not planning to pick up casting levels in the future, both of those talents are going to be suboptimal.  However the Sorcerer can still be useful for a few builds.  There are a number of level one only feats in the species tree.  Being able to pick up two of them can be a good thing.  An Ogre with Fire Brave and Devilish Heritage gets Gore III, which is 2d8 + bleed, 18-20 threat range.  

But in general, those specialties work best when paired with casting classes.

[Morfedel]

Hm; that's too bad. It would be nice if the specialities were a bit more modular.

I did find a feat, The Gift, and I suppose perhaps a couple expert/master classes could benefit as well, but I have to admit, I really dislike the idea of specialties that really just benefit one class; it's almost defeating the purpose of a modular system, methinks.

[Blankbeard]

Those two specialties are there because of the SRD classes, both of which are mapped on the Mage in Fantasy Craft.  When Spellbound is released, there will be an additional 8 classes that the Wizard and the Sorcerer will both fit with.

And there are, I think, 36 specialties.  The other 34 are very flexible.  I don't think having two that are relatively narrow constitutes defeating the purpose.

If you're looking for a way to make a character who's got a little bit of magic, The Gift or Blessed are both useful for arcane and divine magic respectively.  Mystic and Shaman provide those feats if you want them through a specialty.

Also note, if you are a GC, there are origin creation rules in the wiki at http://www.crafty-games.com/node/871  It doesn't get much more modular than that. 

[Wolverine]

Also, don't forget about the Ubiquitous Magic option under the Sorcery Campaign Quality. It can be a lot of fun when everyone can cast spells (even if only one or two).

[Sletchman]

Of those two narrow specialities, only Wizard is limited to Mages really.  I've seen plenty of players take Sorceror for non-Mage classes - only the linked Intimidate and Spellcasting is Mage specific, and the rest of the package is still well and truly good enough to not be useless for other classes.

[ArawnNox]

No one has brought it up yet, and it's something worth repeating to anyone coming in to FC from DnD: Unlearn. Assuming it's DnD with some modded rules is a mistake and sure to trip you up. The SRD was the skeleton upon which FC was built, its surprisingly different.

My next piece of advice has helped me and my players a lot when creating a character. Someone on the forums said this, but I don't remember who; Think of Specialties as your "class" the word that sums up what you do. "Class" is how you approach a problem. Do you apply a broad base of skill knowledge and group synergy to the problem (Sage)? Or do you hit stuff and keep the group well armored (Soldier)?

On to the original questions. Wizard and Sorcerer would indeed benefit most from levels in Mage, but that need not be 100% true. Add in The Gift, and you can get some nifty 0 level spells (with more options on the way with Spellbound just to give you a few extra tricks you can pull. Utility non-combat spells can be surprisingly useful. It won't be your character's primary shtick, but it does open up a few extra options. Oh, yes, don't be afraid of this broad approach to a character, either, FC is great in that, as many will attest, there is seldom a "wrong" way to build a character.

I'm still working my way through the third book in Chronicals of the Black Company, but I think it can be converted over to Fantasy Craft with minimal mucking with the rules. I'm not familiar with True Sorcery, so I can't offer any advice there.

I do hope you pick up FC, it's a great system and my friends really love it.

[Morfedel]

No one has brought it up yet, and it's something worth repeating to anyone coming in to FC from DnD: Unlearn. Assuming it's DnD with some modded rules is a mistake and sure to trip you up. The SRD was the skeleton upon which FC was built, its surprisingly different.

My next piece of advice has helped me and my players a lot when creating a character. Someone on the forums said this, but I don't remember who; Think of Specialties as your "class" the word that sums up what you do. "Class" is how you approach a problem. Do you apply a broad base of skill knowledge and group synergy to the problem (Sage)? Or do you hit stuff and keep the group well armored (Soldier)?

On to the original questions. Wizard and Sorcerer would indeed benefit most from levels in Mage, but that need not be 100% true. Add in The Gift, and you can get some nifty 0 level spells (with more options on the way with Spellbound just to give you a few extra tricks you can pull. Utility non-combat spells can be surprisingly useful. It won't be your character's primary shtick, but it does open up a few extra options. Oh, yes, don't be afraid of this broad approach to a character, either, FC is great in that, as many will attest, there is seldom a "wrong" way to build a character.

I'm still working my way through the third book in Chronicals of the Black Company, but I think it can be converted over to Fantasy Craft with minimal mucking with the rules. I'm not familiar with True Sorcery, so I can't offer any advice there.

I do hope you pick up FC, it's a great system and my friends really love it.

Actually, I was referring to the book published by Green Ronin called The Black Company Campaign Setting; a D20 book that had this really awesome magic system, the best I've seen so far for D20; it was so popular they tweaked it and reprinted it in their True Sorcery book.

In other words, I wasn't referring to the Black Company setting, I was referring to the actual D20 sourcebook published for Black Company by Green Ronin.

And no offense to Crafty Games here, but while FC overall looks awesome, the Black Company/True Sorcery magic rules are the best I've seen for the D20 family.

[Desertpuma]

Wait until Spellbound hits, then you may have to rethink your statement.

[MilitiaJim]

To judge a whole system by the blurb I found here, True Sorcery looks pretty slick.

[his dudeness]

That magic system looks pretty tits.

[Krensky]

If I recall, it's effects based, so Spellbound won't let you do it. I'll double check the book tonight before my game, but I still think you'll need to convert it's caster class to use it.

[Crafty_Pat]

Alex and I have an effects-based system we'll get out there eventually, but it's an entirely separate enterprise from Spellbound, which is specifically spell-based.