Spycraft 3 - What Classes? [Was 'Scientist?']

[doneatrawhagis]

Couple of names that come into my mind when I think about "espionage": Commando (Intruder-Scout-Soldier), Intruder (Intruder-Wheelman with tech'), Broker (Advocate-Fixer-High Roller), Double Agent (Faceman-Explorer-Mole), Team Handler (Pointman-Captain-Tactician), Spotter (Sleuth-Snoop), Analyst (Scientist-Field Analyst, though these are often "support characters"), Hacker (Hacker-Inventor), Retriever (Martial Artist-Runner), Hitman (Soldier-Faceman-Cleaner) ...

I am all for a Hitman type character.

Hacker and Wheelman definitely needs a bit more strength.  They always seemed to me like secondary classes than primary(more so after playing a hacker inventor).

[EloiseCartwright]

Couple of names that come into my mind when I think about "espionage": Commando (Intruder-Scout-Soldier), Intruder (Intruder-Wheelman with tech'), Broker (Advocate-Fixer-High Roller), Double Agent (Faceman-Explorer-Mole), Team Handler (Pointman-Captain-Tactician), Spotter (Sleuth-Snoop), Analyst (Scientist-Field Analyst, though these are often "support characters"), Hacker (Hacker-Inventor), Retriever (Martial Artist-Runner), Hitman (Soldier-Faceman-Cleaner) ...

Assuming there's no dramatic confilicts in the SC book, I'd personally roll the Hacker, Spotter & Analyst into a more customisable 'Investigator' class. Hacker will serve little purpose without Dramatic Conflicts, and could make a return in some form should a book with a Hacking DC turn up later. I'd broaden these out a bit, give the Commando some ability for Combat Driving (primarily Offensive) and the Intruder more evasive/pure speed driving.

[Regularguy]

Assuming there's no dramatic confilicts in the SC book, I'd personally roll the Hacker, Spotter & Analyst into a more customisable 'Investigator' class. Hacker will serve little purpose without Dramatic Conflicts, and could make a return in some form should a book with a Hacking DC turn up later.

You could also maybe fold it into the Advocate-Fixer approach; hacker types are often "get the info" guys, but I've seen 'em double as "the guy who can get it for you".  I mean, do you want a forger to spend hours painstakingly crafting a fake passport that will probably stand up to inspection, or do you just want a bona fide passport issued in whatever name you like?  How about law-enforcement credentials?  Or a medical license?  Back-dated employment records with thus-and-such airline?  How about instant hotel reservations under a perfect alias when you suddenly need a base of operations?  Heck, name pretty much anything a shifty-looking procurer could ask questions about on the black market before handing a good chunk of your money over to folks who'll probably keep their mouths shut -- and ask whether you'd rather just get it on-line.

[rgpandrade]

I liked Scientists for the reasons that most people already suggested.  But I also think that someone said they would make great support characters.  I do wonder though if that class would be best served as a Contact?  Just a thought.

[Desertpuma]

Scientists are just fine as is ... the difference is that most players never travel beyond 2nd level as a Scientist

[Crafty_Pat]

Scientists are just fine as is ... the difference is that most players never travel beyond 2nd level as a Scientist

Actually, that's a pretty strong indicator that they're not fine as is.

[Desertpuma]

Actually I think they are but the 2nd level ability just needs to be toned down a little bit. Consider also, that a number of players like to just grab the first few levels of a class and never proceed deeper than that.

[Crafty_Alex]

Actually I think they are but the 2nd level ability just needs to be toned down a little bit. Consider also, that a number of players like to just grab the first few levels of a class and never proceed deeper than that.

...because they're cherry-picking Ph.D. Not fine.

[Mister Andersen]

I'm not surprised; Ph.D/Trade Secrets is reasonable as a 1st instance ability, but is somewhat undesireable beyond that because you end up less good at your other skills compared to every other character who gets to happily max their skills AND get a shiny class ability that doesn't in effect punish them for having it.

Ironically, the class that benefits most from "Ph.D" is actually the Sage, due to its core ability

[Sletchman]

Ironically, the class that benefits most from "Ph.D" is actually the Sage, due to its core ability

I was under the impression that the official rule was Scientist class skills only - stopping the pointman from using it's 1st level ability and grabbing PhD anything via crossclass ability?  I could be wrong though.

[Crafty_Alex]

Ironically, the class that benefits most from "Ph.D" is actually the Sage, due to its core ability

I was under the impression that the official rule was Scientist class skills only - stopping the pointman from using it's 1st level ability and grabbing PhD anything via crossclass ability?  I could be wrong though.

No, you're correct.

[Desertpuma]

There are certain skills that are more useful in the Scientist class skills than people might not have looked at or did not realize were actually class skills for the Scientist.... like Drive or Tactics (although I have yet to see this one) or Cultures (which I have seen to great effect in my D-Gate game ... 8 additional ranks to Cultures is instantly 2 foci by itself, tack on Int bonuses and other ranks and it is very possible to get every one of the Cultures foci in SC2.0 by 4th level).

[Mister Andersen]

Ironically, the class that benefits most from "Ph.D" is actually the Sage, due to its core ability

I was under the impression that the official rule was Scientist class skills only - stopping the pointman from using it's 1st level ability and grabbing PhD anything via crossclass ability?  I could be wrong though.

No, you're correct.

Keepers/Scientists and Sages/Pointmen share Crafting, Haggle, Investigate, Notice, Medicine, Search, Sense Motive & Tactics, and anyone planning on using Trade Secrets/Ph.D would likely be targeting the Bluff, Impress, Resolve & Survival with BoE in order to cut down the skill excess point expense required for those extra 5 ranks

[Mister Andersen]

There are certain skills that are more useful in the Scientist class skills than people might not have looked at or did not realize were actually class skills for the Scientist.... like Drive or Tactics (although I have yet to see this one) or Cultures (which I have seen to great effect in my D-Gate game ... 8 additional ranks to Cultures is instantly 2 foci by itself, tack on Int bonuses and other ranks and it is very possible to get every one of the Cultures foci in SC2.0 by 4th level).

I always liked Cultures, and I really prefer it and its more encompassing skill focuses to the much harder to acquire and more narrowly focused implementation of interests in Mastercraft. In fact, if Ph.D gave you the option of taking the increase in max rank or else getting 4 extra interests at each iteration, I'm pretty sure you'd find more people would be interested in sticking to the class for more than those early levels.

[Nepenthe]

Actually I think they are but the 2nd level ability just needs to be toned down a little bit. Consider also, that a number of players like to just grab the first few levels of a class and never proceed deeper than that.

...because they're cherry-picking Ph.D. Not fine.

Well, I'm doing it in real life, so obviously  it's at least realistic!