Introducing Spycraft...

[Thalandir]

So, my players have asked me to introduce them to the Spycraft rules set.  They are quite knowledgeable with the base d20 rules (they have been fanatics of both 3rd and 4th Edition) so they know the basic gist of the system as a whole...

But there is an issue:  Which iteration should I use?  1.0 or 2.0?

Now a few facts about the players and GM:

1 - Neither of us are fans of uber crunch in our games.  We like things that move along quickly and smoothly and doesn't require us ten minutes to look up something etc.

2 - As the GM, I like parts of both 1.0 and 2.0.  I like the character generation and skill sets of 2.0 but I'm not a fan of the whole gear system in 2.0.  Every time I look at it, I just get a massive headache.  And see number one for dislike of uber crunch.

3 - The players are huge fans of Bond, Bourne and even a few of them remember Nikita and her exploits. 

Personally, I think that Shadowforce Archer would fit the bill nicely as a setting. I just have issues with both versions of the system that are out there.  The big problem I have is the 2.0 gear system overall.  If I could take that out, put the 1.0 gear system back in and use the gear from 1.0, I'd be a happy camper I think.  But I don't know how compatible they are both are.

So... I'm stuck.  1.0 or 2.0 for an introduction to the genre and gamers? Thoughts?

[TheAuldGrump]

I'd go with 2.0. Or, if you want them to dabble their toes a bit first, get the free download of the Spycraft 1.0 demo rules - print 'em up and hand 'em out for a quick intro. Conversion to 2.0 from there is not hard.

Gotta run.

The Auld Grump

[Sletchman]

I'd personally go with 2.0.

The important thing to remember here is that the book doesn't have to be used whole cloth.  Ignore big chunks of it that your group doesn't like - fluid initiative might be too chunchy, so ditch it.  For gear, you can always gear them up bond style:

"Agents, for this mission Q department has prepared the following for you..."

Just give them enough to complete the mission, but not enough that they become a walking gear chapter.  You can run Archer easily enough with 2.0, especially if you have the PDF with the conversion stuff [even easier if you just want the style, and not necessarily the actual psionic stuff from archer - or if you wanted to use the spellbound stuff as the psions].

[Thalandir]

Oh, I'm going to drop a good amount of stuff out of 2.0 just because of the crunch factor involved...

See, I have most of the books from 1.0 in hardcover (the first 4 books for SFA and 4 books for the silver line) and the rest of the stuff is on PDF (but not with the conversion information... damn!) which gives me a good amount of stuff to deal with and use as background.  Sometimes though, at least with me, too much information is a bad thing because then I want to get ten fingers into ten different pies and they all get gooky...

I was going to have the gear basically assigned to them... they are a group known to over plan a lot.  Where you give them a simple thing to do and then they spend 2 hours trying to figure out if they do Plan F could they fall back to Plan C if and only if it was Tuesday in May and it was raining.. in Egypt.

I'm going to have to really go over 2.0 with a fine tooth comb and make sure what I am going to use is what they want to see... and give them a good feel for it overall.

Decisions, decisions...

[Desertpuma]

Definitely assign gear from their mission picks like the Bond films. For their Charisma picks, give them a list to grab from so they still feel like they are making the most of the decision.

There is not much that is required to drop IMO but I'm also a very wily veteran on the 2.0 system. I would grab some of the free character demo stuff and run one straight out of the box so to speak so they can get a feel for the ruleset. Then they can tell you what they do/don't like.

As always, these forums are very friendly about helping out so do not hesitate to ask if you get stuck.

[TheAuldGrump]

Agreed on having them pick from a list. Gives them some freedom of choice, but keeps the complication down for a bit. Experienced players will come to love the Gear system, but newbies can be intimidated by it.

For the most part the Gear used in my Steampunk game has not been changing much - the characters are happy with what they have. Of course, right now they are trying to stay out of sight of the folks who used to be their employers, so they have not had a chance to change gear in a while.... (Hey, what do you do when you discover that the agency you work for is a front for Moloch? That you have been channeling power for an ancient demon that feasts on the scent of burned sacrifices, and that has been posing as a theological tabulation and difference engine?)

The Auld Grump

[MilitiaJim]

Hey, what do you do when you discover that the agency you work for is a front for Moloch? That you have been channeling power for an ancient demon that feasts on the scent of burned sacrifices, and that has been posing as a theological tabulation and difference engine?

Add fire.  Fire and vegetables.

[Psion]

The gear system is a bit of an issue. At first I thought it was great. The problem I have with it is that is forces you to browse for the table looking for stuff that might help, instead of just buying stuff you think you need. The reason why is categories. If you get given a mission outline, it's pretty easy to think of 3 or 4 things you need right off, but those things seldom match your gear categories.

You could take the "Q division" approach, which at least puts the burden on the GM and doesn't leave you waiting on the slowest player.

You could also just make the gear system a little looser. I'm thinking players aren't limited to just their categories, they just get a bonus with categories on their list (one better caliber, whatever).

Other than that, I gotta say, I don't think I could ever go back to 1e. Sure, gear is tougher until you take charge of it. But the comparative lack of latitude in PC creation on the players side of the screen, and the much more difficult and less flexible NPC creation on the GC side of the screen, are things that would keep me from going with 1e.

[Sletchman]

You could also just make the gear system a little looser. I'm thinking players aren't limited to just their categories, they just get a bonus with categories on their list (one better caliber, whatever).

That's a very interesting idea, and I've tried something similiar in the past [if it's not one of your classes picks it's at Cal-1].  It moves things a little closer to 1e with the BP system.

I wonder how hard that would be to convert a workable solution - maybe each item costs its Cal in BP, and each character gets the sum of their picks [class + charisma + feats like extra gear] * threat level in BP to spend.

[TheAuldGrump]

Hey, what do you do when you discover that the agency you work for is a front for Moloch? That you have been channeling power for an ancient demon that feasts on the scent of burned sacrifices, and that has been posing as a theological tabulation and difference engine?

Add fire.  Fire and vegetables.

Heh, Moloch would thank them for bringing their own condiments. (Moloch was bad news, used to be offered firt born sons, who were then burned alive in a furnace... That kind of thing.) One of the big clues (so big that I am amazed that they didn't overlook it) was that the workmen who died of heatstroke while working his boiler were all firstborn sons....

He didn't get the support that he wanted from Baal though.

I still need to decide what to run next....

I have sometimes considered the idea of Gear cards to simplify things, I have never gotten around to it though, except for vehicles. (Steam driven vehicles needed to be made up anyway.)

The Auld Grump

[Charlie_X]

Make a couple of gadgets beforehand. When I started running 2.0 in playtest, I clicked with the gadget system but the group weren't great with it. After a few examples they get the idea of playing around with 'effects' on normal gear, weapons and so on. Now they can go "Right, I want a cane that's a taser and a flashlight" and we can do that really easily.

The other thing is the living spycraft modules which were released. I don't know if they're still around, but Holiday was a great one I've run about five times at conventions as it's such a simple, free-form premise.

Oh, and if you're new to running Spycraft, play Deus Ex. That is my main inspiration for the freedom the players have in Spycraft to solve a mission in any way they can. Then design your missions accordingly. If they can charm, hack, shoot, stealth or drive their way to a solution, then you're doing the right thing.