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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #435 on: January 23, 2015, 01:45:13 PM »

Because in most settings, magic is the province of a specialised elite and their allies who have no interest in either enabling the plebs with access reliable 'technology' that would threaten their elevated status or else trap themselves in the workcycle of manufacturing.
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TheAuldGrump
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« Reply #436 on: January 23, 2015, 05:49:39 PM »

Because in most settings, magic is the province of a specialised elite and their allies who have no interest in either enabling the plebs with access reliable 'technology' that would threaten their elevated status or else trap themselves in the workcycle of manufacturing.
Except for the fact that people in the real world tried to expand on the horizons of both - Sir Isaac Newton being a prime example (Newton studied magic (the nonexistence of magic not withstanding), and also invented the shot tower - which sped up the production of balls for blackpowder weapons....)

Hell... the witchcraft scare was well into the age of the gun.

Guns show up in the stories of the Grimm brothers.

So, not at all an effective argument.

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« Reply #437 on: January 23, 2015, 06:29:55 PM »

And those technologies developed and took hold because it was in the interest of the scientific elite to disseminate the knowledge in order to make their own lives easier / more profitable / morally justifiable.

(see for instance the story of Longitude, where the elite tried quite hard to repress the attempts of the common man to answer the challenge of determining it, or the catholic church's repression of heliocentrism because they felt it threatened their power)

Magic in most settings requires extensive education and/or favourable genetics to access and master; some such as Dragonlance stick a 'pass or die' proficiency test on top of that. Finding sufficient magic users who are willing to go through that gateway then giveup the exclusive privilages earned by doing so in order to free the common people from their burdens, violating countless notions of class distinction, indoctrination as to the inability of others to handle magic responsibly, and possibly even actual laws in the process, is clearly not easy.

(see also the goa'uld repression of the jaffa through carefully restricted access to technology)

Even with Eberron, as I recall the ubiquidization of magic into technology was the result of a protracted war effort and the need to prioritise resources such that the magic users were forced to come up with self sustaining and easily replicable effects rather than simple egaliantarism.
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Valentina
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« Reply #438 on: January 23, 2015, 09:08:33 PM »

Or maybe it's just authors being lazy by assuming that with the typical Elven civilization going extinct, and it being the presumed apogee of technology, that was had to follow was barbarism (complex metallurgy intact of course) and a painful climb back to even pre-Grecian levels of knowledge.

So I'm willing to chalk it up to a febrile lack of imagination.

Dragonlance, much beloved as I was of it for many years, is also half a monotheistic love letter and given how it's gods and churches were spectacularly worthless for promoting general welfare I'd expect no better from it's magic-users.

...who were also priests of the Moons of Magic.

I've been reading "Cleopatra, A Life" and among it's many worthwhile investigations was how riotous the Alexandrian populace could be.
They killed a few kings in spectacular explosions of outrage when said monarchs performed particularly heinous acts of dishonor or savagery.
My point being that a king who governed gently also governed wisely and that an occupied, cultured populace was far more conducive to productive domesticity then plague-tormented mud-stackers starving through one invasion or civil war after another.

(Alexandria, btw, apparently knew that the world was round and their own position in regards to longitude and latitude far before 40 BCE.)

That didn't eliminate superstition or the feeling of living at the whims of the gods, but it was part of Egypt's legacy of Hellenistic Athens as compared to the tumult and destruction of Rome's many wars.
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ludomastro
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« Reply #439 on: January 24, 2015, 02:38:16 PM »

... I like blackpowder in my fantasy.
Am I the only one starting to wonder why, with all the magic all over, peasants are still living in mud huts with thatched roofs?  I mean, it took a thousand years for metallurgy to become good enough to build a breech loading rifle, but when you have magic swords that cut stone, how do you not have a repeating, or even breech loading, rifle that uses Dwarven blasting cloth?  Argh.  Eberon is the only I recall dealing with this in a sensible fashion.  </rant>

I think it depends on the frequency and availability of magic swords.  If we take the FC approach where every magic sword has a history all it's own and is passed down from father to son or from vanquished adventurer to successful adventurer via the monster's horde, then I think people are far less willing to chop stones with them.  However, if we assume the ToG's level of magic, then I have no idea why they wouldn't do that.  At least why kinds wouldn't do that.
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TheAuldGrump
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« Reply #440 on: January 25, 2015, 09:06:42 AM »

Sadly my slightly moribund Nephos setting is a bit more 1850s than 1750s.
You might like the Lord Darcy series - where technology has advanced to steam engines and the beginnings of electricity... in the 1970s.

One of the two main characters is a forensic sorcerer - specializing in medical examination.

Garret's reasoning was that the development of technology would be slowed by the advancement of magic - purely because the same kind of people were working on each. If Watt is working on spells to determine pressure then he is not spending time working on a steam engine.

And there were folks that did both.

I have an easier time with a divided effort slowing advancement.

In the real world it was the Church and state that tried to prevent the advancement of science - in particular the development of the crossbow. (Worked about as well as trying to tell the tide to retreat.)

On the flip side, the Pope of the time of Galileo was a Copernican himself - Galileo was not tried for trying to prove that the Earth goes around the Sun but... well, mostly for being a jerk. He wrote a work putting the Pope's words into the mouth of a character called The Simpleton.  Roll Eyes

Changing the charges to heresy was actually a way of letting him live - heresy is a crime of intent, and can be recanted.
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« Reply #441 on: January 25, 2015, 01:04:19 PM »

Imagine Dragons - Gold
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« Reply #442 on: January 25, 2015, 09:43:06 PM »

Dreamy - Outraged (Original Mix)
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