The War at Home.

[tracker7]

I remember reading somewhere or hearing it from someone, possibly Ron Paul, that FEMA can actually take over the country completely as a backdoor towards martial law. FEMA can suspend local public emergency medical services or take them over as they see fit in such situations and therefore deny access to them to others based on their view of priority cases/situations.

There is a nugget of almost-fact here, but before I get to it, an anecdote.

I dearly love knowing that there are people out there who buy into the FEMA Shadow Government and Concentration Camp Traveling Funtime Jamboree. I like knowing that there's that kind of clueless credulity. I like it because when I'm doing something that I expect will bring me around these people, I plan ahead. Instead of my trusty laptop bag, I take my backpack. The one with FEMA's logo on it, and a nice little window to show off my FEMA identification. Makes 'em a little nervous, right into apoplexy once or twice. Entertains the heck out of me.

FEMA has no such power, but another Federal agency does - the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And there is no "take over as a backdoor towards martial law" nonsense. CDC can flat-out declare martial law and take control of any significant medical resources in an area facing an existential health and safety crisis. We're talking full-on Outbreak-type stuff here. In such an event, yes, extremely precious medical resources are going to be expended on a priority basis. A triage system will go into place immediately, and in this kind of situation, you'd see some victims given black tags - palliative care only, because there ain't no saving them, and the resources are better spent on those with a greater likelihood of survival.

As to the matter of a citizen volunteer force, and its utility in two wildly different situations as discussed upthread, I can speak to why such a thing is good for the natural (or man-made) disaster recovery effort but not nearly so much for a ongoing criminal event later. It's been a lousy week at the day job and I need to take a sleeping pill and try to get enough rest to power through tomorrow.

[Desertpuma]

Thanks for clearing that up. Just wanted to say that I never believed the concentration camp thing but I could have seen the FEMA backdoor I mentioned. Good to know I was wrong and I can understand the CDC having such priority.

[Tegyrius]

It is true that over the last couple of decades, the general thinking in the field has been that citizens are panicky and unreliable and all disaster response operations should be left solely to the professionals.  However, recent research has shown that the pros' opinion of their clientele is unduly pessimistic.  In large-scale disasters, there will be a certain percentage of people who flake, but the majority will get their shit in one bag and attempt to help (witness the immediate citizen response at the marathon bombing, on top of the mass casualty response assets that were already staged - mad props to Boston's EM establishment for being ready for something like this).  There's also an acknowledgement that despite the media-induced belief that "the FEMA shadow government rescue army should show up immediately," the first responders will always be local and they'll always be overwhelmed. Accordingly, I'm seeing a shift in mindset from "tell everyone to stay away" to "how do we manage spontaneous volunteers?"  One part of that is getting people signed up, trained on basic procedures, and briefed on protocol ahead of time so they're already credentialed (identifiable as trusted) and they know enough to keep from becoming victims themselves.  That's where programs like CERT come in.

As far as organizing spontaneous volunteers for a manhunt on an armed terrorism suspect... whole different issue.  First, that falls under law enforcement jurisdiction, not rescue services and emergency management, and (sweeping generalization warning) cops in the northeast get remarkably freaked-out about the idea of anyone but them having guns.  Second, I'm a pretty vociferous 2A advocate, but one of my big gripes about contemporary gun culture is the lack of safety, lack of training, and lack of frickin' clue inherent in many of my fellow shooters.  I shoot more in training every year than the average cop does (on my own dime, thanks) and I don't consider myself qualified to be hunting Chechens through my neighborhood.  Third, without a law enforcement reserve program or something of the sort, there is no way for the cops to pre-screen those spontaneous armed volunteers for training, competence, sanity, coolness under fire, or criminal history.  To say nothing of department liability if one happens to catch a bullet - or put a stray round through a window and pop a six-year-old neighbor.  So the idea of the citizen posses roaming the streets of suburban Boston is charming but Not Gonna Happen.  It might work better in Kentucky...

Now, on the whole FEMA shadow government takeover thing... not really, no.  FEMA simply doesn't have the budget or staff to take over the country, and that's not really their core competency anyway.

ETA: See upthread for Tracker7's very relevant response.  As often happens, he and I are once again operating in "between the two of us, we make one functional human" mode.

- C.

[Tegyrius]

Oh, and Koala?  Do me a favor, my main marsupial.  If you really plan to use that FiveSeven for whackin' tangos, trade it in on something with actual decent terminal ballistics, willya?

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

Everything Dr. Roberts says about the P90 in that thread is even more true for a pistol that launches those pellets with a shorter barrel and commensurately lower muzzle velocity.

Still rocks for PCs, though, so long as damage is calculated off muzzle energy without regard to actual terminal effects.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled thread.

- C.

[Krensky]

Oh, balls...

You had to go and pick on the marsupial's gun, didn't you Clayton.

* Puts on his helmet, takes cover, and orders more eucalyptis flavored gin.

[TheTSKoala]

Oh, and Koala?  Do me a favor, my main marsupial.  If you really plan to use that FiveSeven for whackin' tangos, trade it in on something with actual decent terminal ballistics, willya?

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913

Everything Dr. Roberts says about the P90 in that thread is even more true for a pistol that launches those pellets with a shorter barrel and commensurately lower muzzle velocity.

- C.

LOL.  Oh sure.. pick on the French!  Actually.. all the reasons in there is why it's my PC.  I'm protected but I'm not walking around with a howitzer liability in my pants.  Plus.. I really like how it fires.  I get a really good grouping off it from 3 to Target.  Plus, I sorta like the fact that it's not a common round, so if it gets stolen, and I store it at a 4, it's a little harder to lock and load.

Though.. I want to play with the FNX45.  See how she feels.  That's, of course, right after I finish the various house projects I have promised to the wife. lol.  *edit* Stupid enter button *edit*

But.. if it makes you feel better.. the safe also has a 40 S&W, a 45 ACP, two 12 Gauges, a 30.06, a .223/5.56, and a .308 that I'm working on.

[Mister Andersen]

Huh, a Police reserve to go alongside the old military reserve. Thatt's an interesting idea to play with. How would it interact with something like the national guard and the division of law enforcement jurisdictions?

[Krensky]

Most metropolitan forces in the us have them already.

[Mister Andersen]

Most metropolitan forces in the us have them already.

Never even heard of the idea before today.

Huh, in other news it turns out that the fertilizer plant that exploded in West, Texas, was holding 270 tons of ammonium nitrate at the plant, 1,350 times the amount that is allowed without disclosure to the DHS. Amusingly, the agency they did tell about it was the EPA, which only requires emergency management plans for chemicals covered by the Clean Air Act;  Ammonium nitrate is not one of them (though the factory regularly submitted their plan, most recently in 2011).

[TheTSKoala]

Dept. of Homeland Stupidity.  You mean they had another critical function that they either are ill equipped or simply unable to function as?  And that's not a dig at the DHS.  That's all reflective of our genius politicians who dream up this new department but stop about a third of the way in.  I pray my next career stop isn't with that dept. but I fear it's going to be... *sob, sob uncontrollably*  Everyone always worries about DHS being the shadow agency to be sorta the bridge between the NSA and CIA, where, in reality, those poor bastards don't have nearly the policy, procedure or manpower to do their normal job, nevermind be all shadowy. 

It's like hiring Krensky to do a infrastructure deployment and handing him empty boxes of CISCO gear and rack servers.  Then asking him why he's looking at you funny.