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Author Topic: [Civ: BE]Harmony, Supremacy, or Purity? [Discussion]  (Read 1098 times)
RusVal
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« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2014, 11:43:24 AM »

So here's an interesting subject: So covert ops are in the game, and work in general to how they did in Civ 5 with some tweaks.  And it turns out ARC, the one with this symbol, are the spy specialists.  Who knew?  Roll Eyes

The question is: how would that work cross-Affinity?  The first two levels, sure, when humans are still like they are today, with some slight ideological differences.  But when level three roles around, and those ideals kick into full on modification of the human body?  How would spying work then?  Would Purity spies go full on borg to fit in with the Supremacy population?  What if they then are moved to a Harmony city afterwards?

I mean, of course makeup technology would probably advance to the point where you could fake being modified a certain way, but I'm curious how the smart "spy" people of these boards would approach something like that.  And you don't have be Purity when theorizing.  How would Harmony spy on Supremacy, and vice versa?
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« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2014, 01:33:39 PM »

Interesting question.
Could be a presumption of mixed populations -"there will always be Outsiders, but we tolerate/enslave/poke them." So people always kinda fit in.
Or it could be direct application of Handwavium. Huh?
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« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2014, 01:47:15 PM »

The usual ways:  Running locals out of your embassy, honey pots, ELINT, "thousand grains of sand" if there is significant movement of people.
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« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2014, 08:54:59 PM »

The usual ways:  Running locals out of your embassy, honey pots, ELINT, "thousand grains of sand" if there is significant movement of people.


Well that's a boring answer if I ever heard it. Tongue Wink
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« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2014, 11:06:50 PM »

So let's dress it up a little.
Does anyone know of an instance when all those approaches didn't work?
The hinterlands of Afghanistan maybe?
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« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2014, 08:42:26 PM »

The hinterlands of Afghanistan maybe?
Local stringers and ELINT.  Sorry.
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« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2014, 08:55:54 PM »

The hinterlands of Afghanistan maybe?
Local stringers and ELINT.  Sorry.

Nah, good to know. Information -> Power. I'd rather expose my ignorance and be thought a fool then keep my mouth shut and actually be one. (with apologies to Confucious.)

So you'd need total barriers.
No shared languages, no cultural connections, zero tolerance for outsiders, and uh... semaphore?
And, most difficulty imo, a seamless control of physical access.
All that's possible, if not entirely plausible, on something like a space station for example.
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« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2014, 11:13:51 PM »

Even that isn't a guarantee, we're still learning things about Mesopotamians who have been dead for 4,000+ years.
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"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."  ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool  in the killer's hands.")
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« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2014, 07:34:30 PM »

By the way, you will fear Purity's pointy helmets.

(click to show/hide)
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« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2014, 08:18:16 PM »

They really are the TOG from Renegade Legion (that is to say Space Romans).
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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2014, 01:38:40 AM »

So let's dress it up a little.
Does anyone know of an instance when all those approaches didn't work?

Well... it often fails cross-species and those branches of humanity might actually be separate species by some standards.

It also raises questions of how all pervasive your surveillance can get in-setting - they could take it to a level we simply cannot conceive of as part of our current human condition. Or the populace might still cherish its privacy.

Tinkering with security for Farthest Star, the best I've been able to come up with is a cultural awareness that no system is infallible - trust that its very, very good... but don't stand there flabbergasted when someone has clearly beaten it. Complacency is a serious security vulnerability Smiley.
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« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2014, 03:46:35 PM »

It turns out that there are at least two counter covert ops techs in the game.

One is a tile improvement that uses drone swarms for surveillance, which reduces the maximum intrigue that a city can build by two levels (out of five).  For those that don't know, level three and lower doesn't effect the person being taken from, such as siphoning money (lvl 0), stealing techs(lvl 2), or recruiting defectors (free military units, lvl 3), while four and five do (hacking satellites, coup d'état, and affinity super weapons).
The other is a wonder you can build called Human Hive, which reduces a city's maximum intrigue by four.  So the best enemy spies can do is siphon money and science.  Which makes sense, since it would be difficult hiding your thoughts from an entire mind collective.  It also should be noted that researching the tech that lets you build this wonder gains you a ton if Supremacy points, enough to bump you up a few levels in one go.
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"Why don't you wear a helmet?  I feel anonymous and disposable..." -VGCats

"What is this, a bad spy movie?!  You two are going to get us all killed!" -Jack Carver, Far Cry
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