Suggestions for Expert Class

[klofft]

One of my players is starting a new character.  She is a Sleek Prodigy (Security) and she will be Martial Artist at 1st level, while picking up some Intruder levels along the way.

She's interested in an Expert Class, but can't find just what she's looking for.  We know that you don't need an Expert Class, but she wanted to consider it.

The problem is that she doesn't know what direction she plans to take her character.

1) She may go the route of the classy assassin - the person who studies the mark, gets close to him, and kills him quickly and quietly.

2) Or she may want to be the "action hero" who takes out a roomful of minions with her bare hands and then later leaps off a motorcycle into a moving car at 80 mph.

Any Expert Class suggestions (or even general "builds") for one or both ideas? Thanks in advance.

[baud]

Most expert classes greatly benefit from their core ability. If she was a Martial Artist/Intruder she'd forfeit that core ability. Otherwise I'd say wait until the time comes to choose and choose then, as she'll have a better understanding of how she'll be using her character. But at a glance street knight or ninja from World on Fire, and Stuntman or Raptor would greatly benefit her.

[klofft]

Most expert classes greatly benefit from their core ability. If she was a Martial Artist/Intruder she'd forfeit that core ability. Otherwise I'd say wait until the time comes to choose and choose then, as she'll have a better understanding of how she'll be using her character. But at a glance street knight or ninja from World on Fire, and Stuntman or Raptor would greatly benefit her.

You don't forfeit your core ability when you take an expert class.

[Psion]

(1) Sounds like Ninja. (2) Sounds like Raptor, or maybe One Man Army.

No small coincidence that the 2 raptors I've seen, one started out as intruder, the other as martial artist. The latter was a tough build, but some intruder levels would make it easier.

[Black Cheese]

Both Mar and Int have Sneak as a class skill. The Int has Security as a class skill. In other words, your player is blowing resources on things she already gets. That's inefficient, and that offends me. Go with something meatier--like Corn-fed and Gymnast, for example--to get the most bang for the buck.

How many PCs are there? If it's just her, intruder is awesome--one of the handful of classes that functions perfectly on its own (combat feats, defensive class features, rad core ability, and gear out the wazoo). Of course, martial artist is another (defensive core ability, kick-ass combat abilities, a couple of weird and random skills, and no need for gear). So, yeah, either of those works. I'm guessing she'll lean toward martial artist as its sexier to beat up dudes than it is to just have a lot of stuff.

Take a look at the first 2 levels of scout (as scout is a 2-level-long class) for some help, but then it'd be the aforementioned raptor or WoF's ninja.

[Krensky]

Baud's got the best line here. Let her pick something organically when the time comes. As long as she and the rest of the team are having fun, efficiency can hang.

[Black Cheese]

As long as she and the rest of the team are having fun, efficiency can hang.

Efficiency is fun. Rock on, comrade.

[Sletchman]

Obviously the best idea is to see what comes up in play, and what stuff she enjoys doing and pick an appropiate expert class [if any - she might enjoy going Martial Artist / Intruder / Faceman, or even sticking with Intruder].

From the stuff mentioned tell her to have a read of Cleaner, Ninja, Raptor, and Stuntman.  Then see what abilities she thinks do what she wants her character to be able to do - that's the class to take.

[Psion]

Eh. Some origins offer multiple class skills. I think being so concerned about duplicating a class skill that you steer away from a fun sounding build over it is like forgoing your favorite restaurant to save a few pennies.

[baud]

Most expert classes greatly benefit from their core ability. If she was a Martial Artist/Intruder she'd forfeit that core ability. Otherwise I'd say wait until the time comes to choose and choose then, as she'll have a better understanding of how she'll be using her character. But at a glance street knight or ninja from World on Fire, and Stuntman or Raptor would greatly benefit her.

You don't forfeit your core ability when you take an expert class.

You do when you take an expert class as your third cross-class. A Martial Artist/Infiltrator isn't going to get any more core abilities as that would be their third class. This is why master classes don't have core abilities. You only get the core abilities for your first two classes.

[Krensky]

You get the core ability from you first base and first expert class, not your first two classes.

[Psion]

Krensky is correct.

[baud]

Krensky is correct.

You get the core ability from you first base and first expert class, not your first two classes.

Ah, I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to rework how I've multi-classed a few of my characters.

[Black Cheese]

Eh. Some origins offer multiple class skills. I think being so concerned about duplicating a class skill that you steer away from a fun sounding build over it is like forgoing your favorite restaurant to save a few pennies.

Emphasis mine. Fun-sounding and actually fun are two different things. Throwing away perfectly good things because they sound better on your character sheet hurts all the players at the table because doing so prevents them as a whole from being as good as they can be, no matter how much fun you're having by screwing them over.

But I get the sense this disagreement is probably fundamental. And that's okay. It's just that I wouldn't want to give up an origin's design point only to make it say Svelte rather than Corn-fed on my sheet.

As to the second part of your point, it's not dodging my favorite cafe to save a pennies, but going somewhere new--and potentially better--because there are different things on the menu, even if my fave bistro is down the street and the new place is across town. And, yeah, I tortured the crap out of that metaphor.

[Krensky]

Same rules, but playing very different games.