World on Fire books

[klofft]

Are the new WoF books going to also bring the timeline up through 2010-2011? And if so, is the setting being ret-conned to move events up, or are we still left guessing what happened immediately after, say, 2006?

On a different note, were there any TV shows or movies that specifically contributed to the intended feel of the WoF setting? As part of my re-tool of my SC 2 campaign, I'm trying to work up a consistent tone, and knowing what Pat had in mind would save me some work.

Thanks.

[Pheonyx]

IIRC, a lot of the feel for World On Fire was more literary than visual, although there is some feel from several series/movies that I get from it: 24, Alias, the Mission: Impossible films just to name a few... more gritty in tone.

They'll probably have a more thorough answer, but hope this helps a little.

Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx

[Psion]

While I'd agree with 24, MI, and Alias, I get a whiff of "V for Vendetta" from WoF.

[Crafty_Pat]

Are the new WoF books going to also bring the timeline up through 2010-2011? And if so, is the setting being ret-conned to move events up, or are we still left guessing what happened immediately after, say, 2006?

The timeline will move forward a bit, though I'm still debating whether to bring it current. It feels wrong to me - it's too much time for the story and would raise too many questions, so probably not.

On a different note, were there any TV shows or movies that specifically contributed to the intended feel of the WoF setting? As part of my re-tool of my SC 2 campaign, I'm trying to work up a consistent tone, and knowing what Pat had in mind would save me some work.

24 and V for Vendetta, certainly, and Amerika a bit as well (fantastic 80s mini-series but good luck finding it!). More than anything though, World on Fire was and still is inspired by world news - especially in the months and years immediately following 9/11. When I'm stuck for plotlines, that's where I go - I watch the news of the day, or look at an archive, and ask myself how a world governed by fear and wrath would respond.

[klofft]

Thanks, Pat (and others).

Hmmm.  This is a bit unfortunate for me.  I'm re-starting in July and I doubt the WoF stuff will be out by then, so I'd have to guess as to how certain things are going to go.

Combine that with the fact that (confession of sin coming here) I've never seen more than a wayward episode of 24, or V for Vendetta, or Amerika.  And I can do paranoid modern world on my own.

I want to use the setting and I'll almost certainly buy the material, but I'll have to give some thought to whether or not I might just homebrew something instead.

[Pheonyx]

Well, you can always start them not being affiliated with any of the groups, refer to events in vague terms (like " a few years ago" as opposed to "2006"), then when the books start to come out, you can ease the new info into the game and make things a bit more concrete. Make them outside factors to start and during course of play, reveal more and more to bring them fully into it.

I was referencing the WoF factions and events in vague terms long before WoF came out in my old game.

Ashes to ashes,
Pheonyx

[Psion]

Combine that with the fact that (confession of sin coming here) I've never seen more than a wayward episode of 24, or V for Vendetta, or Amerika.  And I can do paranoid modern world on my own.

How about the Bourne series? Or Robert Ludlum's novels?

Ludlum has a lot of books wherein the protagonist finds himself hunted by "the Law" (the CIA, etc.) in the midst of their attempts to unravel some sinister plot. That seems pretty in-line with the WoF idea of "rogue spy agencies".

[klofft]

True.  And I am VERY familiar with Ludlum (I haven't read all of his, but most).

Since I wrote what I wrote yesterday, I've reneged a little bit, as I re-read that the new WoF book is supposed to have a launching point for the setting.  Now it's just a matter of timing: how much mulling about the playground without getting too specific will I have to do before the book comes out?

I really appreciate some of you being apologists for the setting.  I like it a lot on paper, but I have had a REALLY hard time thinking about how to use it well.

I have some other questions I will post later today.

[Psion]

I really appreciate some of you being apologists for the setting.  I like it a lot on paper, but I have had a REALLY hard time thinking about how to use it well.

I wouldn't sweat it so much. As presented, it seems like it's the designers' intent that you carve up what you need at leave the rest.

I don't use the setting quite as presented; I more use it as fodder for my larger setting and downplay stuff that's not that important to me. PITFALL was never a big deal to me. I used my own agency, and made intimations they were working in league with the Shadow Patriots. I did entertain thoughts of a campaign where my agency gets absorbed by Pitfall and they have to try to do the right thing despite it. (Drawing inspiration from the first season of Alias or several seasons of 24.)

The main things I really use from WoF is the Franchise and Kholera (though the latter is now done with) and the mechanics material. I add 4 years to most post-2000 events as I wanted to play though many of the events in the timeline. And despite the seemingly huge changes, I still get plenty of idea fodder from the book.

I was chomping at the bit for the WoF flags book. I thought I might transition my players to full on shadow patriots after the flags book came out. But I ended that campaign and was thinking about the "moles in pitfall" thing above, which sounds like just as fun a game. Now the main thing I am waiting for is really Paradox and the Alliance of Evil Geniuses.

[klofft]

Another (slightly more delicate) theme/tone question.

Given the setting's origins in the literal wake of 9/11 and the political atmosphere at the time, do you think any aspect of the setting (I'm thinking Pitfall here specifically) seems less viable in light of the Obama era?

I'm not trying to make this a political discussion, but it might seem that if Pitfall was proposed as a plot element of an espionage movie in 2010, it might seem "excessively paranoid."  Thoughts? Or am I under- or overthinking this?

[klofft]

Oh, and Pat, a request for the final book? A timeline for the whole setting would be very helpful rather than trying to parse dates from pages of text containing not-entirely-sequential events.

[Crafty_Pat]

Given the setting's origins in the literal wake of 9/11 and the political atmosphere at the time, do you think any aspect of the setting (I'm thinking Pitfall here specifically) seems less viable in light of the Obama era?

Absolutely, yes. It's unlikely to me that Obama would have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the nomination, let alone winning election, until and unless both the Alliance and Pitfall were neutralized, if not dismantled - and per the set-up as I envisioned it, that was pretty much impossible without several high-profile victories by the heroic factions that also severely impugned the Powers That Be.

Besides, had the World on Fire storyline continued to the 2008 election, I suspect Winter would have found a way to suspend the electoral process indefinitely.

Yes, the setting's that far gone - or at least it was. I intend to wrap up much, but not all, of the worst of it with Born of Ashes.

I'm not trying to make this a political discussion, but it might seem that if Pitfall was proposed as a plot element of an espionage movie in 2010, it might seem "excessively paranoid."  Thoughts? Or am I under- or overthinking this?

You're not. World on Fire was very much a child of its era. I have no intention of "updating it" to the real world, as that would go against everything at the core of the setting.

[Crafty_Pat]

Oh, and Pat, a request for the final book? A timeline for the whole setting would be very helpful rather than trying to parse dates from pages of text containing not-entirely-sequential events.

I think that can be arranged.

[aegis]

Oh, and Pat, a request for the final book? A timeline for the whole setting would be very helpful rather than trying to parse dates from pages of text containing not-entirely-sequential events.

That is indeed a GREAT idea. I always have an extremely hard time trying to link all the dates together. A detailed timeline would be very, very useful.

[MilitiaJim]

Given the setting's origins in the literal wake of 9/11 and the political atmosphere at the time, do you think any aspect of the setting (I'm thinking Pitfall here specifically) seems less viable in light of the Obama era?

I'm not trying to make this a political discussion, but it might seem that if Pitfall was proposed as a plot element of an espionage movie in 2010, it might seem "excessively paranoid."  Thoughts? Or am I under- or overthinking this?

Pitfall is just as viable, if not more so, now than two years ago.  None of the laws in question have been substantively changed, and the current administration has argued for their use with equal or perhaps surpassing vigor.

The argument that an organization like Pitfall is now more likely certainly holds water given Obama's internationalist tendencies.