Spycraft Third edition Wishlist and Suggestions Mega-thread

[Crafty_Pat]

Wow, I thought that I disliked the poison rules in Fantasy Craft... On Sunday I listened to one of my players going on at length.... He really does not like them. (One of his catch points was that a fast-acting paralytic poison only knocks you out for one round....) I do agree that tying onset time in with duration does not make sense, even the one paralytic poison that I could brew acts a heck of a lot faster than the duration. (Deadly nightshade - onset in less than an hour, duration days.)

He says that now, but wait until the GM uses a "realistic" poison on a character he's built up for months....

Eric is making noises about not wanting to run Master Craft,

Oh, he is a GM. Then of course he wants realistic poisons. 

Seriously, I would simply never run a game with realistic poisons - it's not even remotely fun. I say this not to shut you down but rather as a counter-point: there are people who would put the book down for the opposite reason, and my designer gut tells me I'm not in the minority.

All that said, your point has been taken - repeatedly. We've said we'll include more realistic poison upgrades in future Fantasy Craft volumes and we will - with the appropriate warnings about how they run just as real a chance of ruining your game, of course.

[TheAuldGrump]

Wow, I thought that I disliked the poison rules in Fantasy Craft... On Sunday I listened to one of my players going on at length.... He really does not like them. (One of his catch points was that a fast-acting paralytic poison only knocks you out for one round....) I do agree that tying onset time in with duration does not make sense, even the one paralytic poison that I could brew acts a heck of a lot faster than the duration. (Deadly nightshade - onset in less than an hour, duration days.)

He says that now, but wait until the GM uses a "realistic" poison on a character he's built up for months....

Eric is making noises about not wanting to run Master Craft,

Oh, he is a GM. Then of course he wants realistic poisons.  

Seriously, I would simply never run a game with realistic poisons - it's not even remotely fun. I say this not to shut you down but rather as a counter-point: there are people who would put the book down for the opposite reason, and my designer gut tells me I'm not in the minority.

All that said, your point has been taken - repeatedly. We've said we'll include more realistic poison upgrades in future Fantasy Craft volumes and we will - with the appropriate warnings about how they run just as real a chance of ruining your game, of course.

Actually, he had no problems when I did use a realistic poison on his character.

I mentioned it more because I was surprised by his vehemence than to restate my position. I have strong opinions, but his were... possibly overboard.

Mind you, he was also the player who had problems with the mere idea of subplots, and now he has completed more subplots than any other player....

Also a point worth making - I do tailor my poisons to fit the game. I would not, for example, poison a PC with a polonium-210 pellet. I might well poison an NPC with one, and give the PCs the fun of picking up some serious rads during the investigation and cleanup, but not give a PC a 'bang, you be dead' poison.

But I do want the players worried when their friend or team mate Bob starts convulsing, arching his back and screaming. I want them to taste the coffee, and notice how very bitter it tastes.

Nightshade, with all its symptoms, yes. Aconite, no problem. Meadow orchid, the same. Inky cap - heh, heh, heh....*

Destroying Angel would not be fun to use on a PC (get sick, get better, die). But could give the PCs a false sense of security that an NPC is pulling through, only to have the character to die of general organ failure. (I have seen Destroying Angel once in the state of Maine.)

Fly Agaric is another that can be entertaining - it has two significant properties, one is poisoning, the other is as a predecessor to Viagra. (Spanish Fly.) Depending on dosage, I can have all sorts of fun.

When Nappy's hair takes on a healthy sheen over the course of months, followed by lethargy and a greying of his skin, I want them wondering what is afoot on the Isle of Elba.

Other poisons can be handled simply because the warning signs and treatment are well known - decocting peach pits to make cyanide, or serving the pits, slivered, over noodles in a white sauce... The smell of bitter almonds and treatment are well known.

Realistic does not necessarily mean instantly or certainly lethal, but it can add a level of verisimilitude that I feel the current rules are lacking. (I liked those in SC2.0 better, but still tweaked them).

It may be worth noting that I read one heck of a lot more mysteries than I do fantasy or espionage. I enjoy the plotting of poisons.  

The Auld Grump, and all this is why I will never kill anyone with poisons, antique guns, or explosives... too many people would look my way....

* Inky Cap remains the only poison that I have knowingly ingested or served to other people. It is delicious, and nontoxic unless ingested with alcohol. Even then the symptoms are limited to vomiting and diarrhea. A 'Sickening' poison. Onset is a matter of minutes.

*EDIT* In other words, I prefer changing the system to fit the real poisons, rather than tell the PCs that they are suffering from Gobbledygook Pseudoscience Toxin.

*EDIT 2* It is perhaps worth noting that Aconite (or Aconitine) has only been used successfully twice - once in 1881, the other in 2009. While deadly it is treatable, and the symptoms easy to recognize.

[tfwfh]

Perhaps a change of topic.  Are there any plans or ideas for "special powers" in SC3?  By special powers I mean things that are basically magic, like the psionics of classic spycraft or spellbound/vow of silence in SC2.

[Crafty_Pat]

Perhaps a change of topic.  Are there any plans or ideas for "special powers" in SC3?  By special powers I mean things that are basically magic, like the psionics of classic spycraft or spellbound/vow of silence in SC2.

In the core book? No. However, Vow of Silence will be released for Spycraft Third Edition and it taps into Spellbound (which is a Mastercraft product and therefore fully compatible with Spycraft Third). In fact, anything released for any Mastercraft game will be compatible, allowing you to greatly expand and customize your games over time.

[Desertpuma]

Does this mean Psionics will be including in an upcoming volume?

[Crafty_Alex]

Does this mean Psionics will be including in an upcoming volume?

It's certainly a possibility. What that looks like at this point is still far off.

[Desertpuma]

thanks Alex

[Charlie_X]

* I would like Spycraft to be realistic spies (Tom Clancy, Greg Rucka and all that) and more stylised spies (Alias, Bond, etc, etc) but NOTHING supernatural, psionic or wibbly in any way in the corebook. I love SFA, but anything that would be found in there should be in a different book.

*Fluid Initiative as an option. I love Fantasycraft's combat, but the thing I miss about Spycraft's system is fluid initiative. I'd rather not put it in as something a group HAS to do, but as something people can tack on.

* Setting neutral in the book. Again, SFA is wonderful, World on Fire was my enemy when it took the place of SFA, but I love that too, now. I'd rather not have them in the core book, though, like 2.0.

* NPCs, just take EVERYTHING from Fantasycraft. I've using a booklet-format cheat sheet for Fantasycraft and did the same for my "goodbye to Spycraft 2.0" campaign, but dear lordy lord that was hellish, even just to get the cheat sheet. I've been spoiled by Fantasycraft. The things I'd like to keep from NPCs are things like Commander and Horde. That NPC converter program on Drive Thru RPG was fantastic and bypasses any need for complaints about the Tier system, which I still find useful.

* Gear. The 2.0 gear was mostly good. The gadgets were ignored by my players as 90% of players I've had didn't "get" them unless I built the gadgets for them. Eventually they got better, but not fantastic.

* Dramatic Conflicts, okay, but not 100% necessary, at least not all the ones which were had in second edition. Really only chases, but then they're not necessary for that if you do something like combat actions.

[snake]

Are there any plans to have SC 3.0 cover different time periods of espionage, in the same way FC covers different fantasy eras ?. I'm thinking maybe ranging from the Great Game/Victorian Era through the Cold War and modern times to the near future of the Netforce type technothrillers. Will the Gear section cover equipment from these times or just modern era ?

[Crafty_Alex]

Are there any plans to have SC 3.0 cover different time periods of espionage, in the same way FC covers different fantasy eras ?. I'm thinking maybe ranging from the Great Game/Victorian Era through the Cold War and modern times to the near future of the Netforce type technothrillers. Will the Gear section cover equipment from these times or just modern era ?

No 100% for-sure plans at this time, but I would not expect a hugely time-ranging view on spies in the SC3 core book. The level of detail, and the changing tactics and situations around espionage of those periods, would IMNSHO dilute much of the effectiveness and "realism" of all periods of play. In fantasy you can get away with playing it a little fast and loose (and if some fan feedback is to be believed, even then it's not acceptable), not so much in modern anything. Spycraft 2.0 suffered in some ways because it tried to be too many things at once, rather than putting some stuff off into volumes where the issue can be more fully and properly addressed - and in the case of WWII or other key periods in time we wouldn't be forgiven for half-assing it As a designer (or a customer), I'd personally prefer sourcebooks and supplemental materials to the core which would give a proper treatment to those time periods as full topics instead, much in the same way Charlie above is saying he'd prefer to keep SFA, magic and psionics out of the core book.

[Doublebond]

And how much potential is there for us to see such supplementary materials? I would assume you're covering present day with the core book, so might we be seeing a cold-war themed supplement sometime in the future?

[Crafty_Alex]

And how much potential is there for us to see such supplementary materials? I would assume you're covering present day with the core book, so might we be seeing a cold-war themed supplement sometime in the future?

We're doing a whole new edition of Spycraft, so...I think we're looking at a longer term view of these sorts of things. Feel free to speculate from there, because it's way too far out to talk about any plans of what will be coming (which inevitably leads to when) now.

[snake]

Ok, cool. Thanks Alex. What I really think is a must in SC 3.0 would be a Tradecraft chapter of the kind that appeared in World on Fire, to give an overview of the genre. Would something like that be possible ?

[Crafty_Alex]

Considering the focus of the book, Tradecraft will certainly be something we need to talk about

[aegis]

I fully agree! The Tradecraft chapter in World on Fire was just fabulous! I believe it can be cut down a little if you want to save some space, but it's definitely something worth having in an espionage RPG core rulebook.