Spycraft Third edition Wishlist and Suggestions Mega-thread

[Oleyo]

Been mentioned already, but I would like to throw my desires into the mix as well:

GEAR (weapons)

Sort of a mix of the old and new:  I would like a gear system that has nice abstract core rules like in FC where each "type" of weapon is mechanically distinct and thus has some pro and con, or situation where it shines.

I love the idea of weapons having these pro/con flavors, so that my players are encouraged to follow their instinct of grabbing the weapon that they think fits the personality and flavor of their character, rather than fighting that instinct and going for the "best" weapon.  Let the weapon embellish the character, not overshadow him.

For example, I like to see my disciplined SWAT type guy grab an SMG and acquire targets lightening fast in tight spaces(perhaps some kind of initiative bonus?), my in-your-face brazen badass grabs the shotgun (I LOVE the blurb in SC 2.0 where pumping the shotgun gives an Intimidate bonus!), and my suave con-man always packs his favorite pistol (concealement of course, maybe some quick draw bonus?)  I am sure the Crafties can think of some great mechanics.  Damage of course should be a factor, but perhaps to a reduced degree.

Upgrades like scopes, stocks, bipods, etc can fill out and add to this distinction and give more flavor to the gear.  Many specific weapons would be mechanically the same of course, this is correct for game level abstraction I feel.

Dramatic Conflict (DC from here on):

Similarly I think all DC's should share the same base back-and-forth mechanics but with unique flavor and "special move" for each type of DC.  Just like individual skills all using the same core game mechanics, but with specific application.  I think DC's will be easier to use if they are abstracted a bit more and are a bit more universal.

[Spikes]

I haven't tried a dramatic conflict apart from a car chase, yet. Hacking seems to make sense too.

For car chases it makes sense but when I read infiltration and brainwashing I have trouble as to how I would railroad/guide the storytelling properly.

[Desertpuma]

Infiltration, Seduction, Interrogation can all work ... Brainwashing requires that both the player and GC trust each other to role play it out.

Some may take some work other simple matters like chases and hacking. Infiltration is very much an undercover deal and can be seen in Sneakers or even in Wall Street. Seduction is not always about engaging the opposite sex but can be about seducing someone like Pacino was attempting to do to Keanu Reeves in Devil's Advocate. Interrogation is so necessary in 10KB and you can even see it in every cop film or TV show. The Shield made it an integral part as does L&O: SVU.
 

[Doublebond]

Does anyone mind explaining just what Dramatic Conflicts are? I never played SC 1 or 2, so I'm clueless as to what anyone's talking about.

[Bill Whitmore]

Does anyone mind explaining just what Dramatic Conflicts are? I never played SC 1 or 2, so I'm clueless as to what anyone's talking about.

Basically Dramatic Conflicts were a sort of mini-game.  Dramatic Conflicts, like combat, would take place in rounds, though the length of each round varied by conflict.

SC included Dramatic Conflicts for Chases, Brainwashing, Hacking, Infiltration, Interrogation, Manhunts, and Seduction.

Each Conflict consists of predator, prey, and lead.  The lead ranged from 0-10 and the higher the lead value, the further away the predator was from defeating his prey.

In each round of the conflict, both participants would select a strategy they wanted to utilize.  Each strategy had a skill modifier and a list of advantages.  An opposed check would then be made and the winner would get to use 1 or more of the advantages depending on how much better he rolled than his opponent.

Some strategies have prerequisites, like being within a certain amount of lead, or a vehicle with a certain handling requirements.

A couple examples where the Dramatic Conflicts can be used:
The team had finally caught up with Carlos at his office but while they were gunning down his thugs, Carlos escaped out the back.  However, they had a spotter out back who saw him when he came flying out of his garage so the agent gave chase.

After playing out the Chase Dramatic Conflict, Carlos manage to give the agent the slip.  Knowing his last known location, the Agents are quick to set up a Manhunt to try to track him down before he can get too far away.  Now the agents are working for a clandestine organization, and they now need to walk a thin line between flushing Carlos out, and being discovered themselves.

[gaghiel42]

There were also a variety of feats that could let people participate in the Chase outside of the actual dramatic conflict too like "One hand on the Wheel" and a whole bunch of interesting style feats and such that would help with a variety of the other dram cons.

The more I think about them, the more I know that they are a pretty important chunk of the fun in some of my home games.  We typically saw the Chase, hacking and Seduction ones come into play but I can see reasons for all of them.  It always felt to me like they were one of the reasons that the feat tables were laid out the way they were in the SC books. 

In the third printing, I really hope that the Chase Dram Con is integral to the book.  Its a pretty significant piece of the espionage game.  Also, the Seduction dramatic conflict could potentially use renaming as it always seemed to confuse my players when they wanted to use it and found out it was more geared towards recruitment and less towards bagging the evil Femme Fatale.  Probably didnt help that the hot chick in the pool was the first picture they saw when looking at that section, but I aint complaining about that one.  Eye candy always helps. 

If there was a way to make the in-game effects of NPC disposition more part of the forefront, that'd be awesome.  I always felt like that section was kinda crammed into the back of the book after the NPC section.  With as many feats and abilities that were based on modifying that stat, I kinda think there should be more of a Boldface arrow pointing to them.  I'm at a loss for where better to put it, but it and the Contacts info always felt hard to get hold of when I went looking for it. (especially since disposition didn't have a listing in the index at the end)  Perhaps they would fit in somewhere prior to the creation tables?

[Doublebond]

Dramatic Conflict sounds very interesting. Someone go remind the devs how clever they are.

Regardless, it seems to me that while you can't really get away without certain implementations of dramatic conflict in this book (such as chase, mentioned above) there is a prime opportunity to expand the concept to cover more things (chess is one that springs to mind; poker is another), though the fact that there are feats based around it seems to call for a more generic approach ("board game" and "card game", for example), which leaves me wondering whether or not that's a good idea.

[Aldus Vertten]

Dramatic Conflict sounds very interesting. Someone go remind the devs how clever they are.

Regardless, it seems to me that while you can't really get away without certain implementations of dramatic conflict in this book (such as chase, mentioned above) there is a prime opportunity to expand the concept to cover more things (chess is one that springs to mind; poker is another), though the fact that there are feats based around it seems to call for a more generic approach ("board game" and "card game", for example), which leaves me wondering whether or not that's a good idea.

Dramatic Conflicts where about things a little more "big", like the mentioned Chases, Brainwashing, Hacking, Infiltration, Interrogation, Manhunts, and Seduction, and I was looking forward to see the Mass Combat DC in FC before they announced that it was being dumped for the moment. i see a Poker/Chess game as something more straightforward, that could be represented perfectly by an opposed or complex check. The possibilities for complications in the DC are bigger than in a situation like that...

[Doublebond]

Dramatic Conflict sounds very interesting. Someone go remind the devs how clever they are.

Regardless, it seems to me that while you can't really get away without certain implementations of dramatic conflict in this book (such as chase, mentioned above) there is a prime opportunity to expand the concept to cover more things (chess is one that springs to mind; poker is another), though the fact that there are feats based around it seems to call for a more generic approach ("board game" and "card game", for example), which leaves me wondering whether or not that's a good idea.

Dramatic Conflicts where about things a little more "big", like the mentioned Chases, Brainwashing, Hacking, Infiltration, Interrogation, Manhunts, and Seduction, and I was looking forward to see the Mass Combat DC in FC before they announced that it was being dumped for the moment. i see a Poker/Chess game as something more straightforward, that could be represented perfectly by an opposed or complex check. The possibilities for complications in the DC are bigger than in a situation like that...

Eh. It varies. Such an approach would turn movies like Casino Royale into a giant skill challenge. But, as I said, were you to try and cover as many instances as Dramatic Conflict could apply to, you would undermine the usefulness in specializing in any one form of dramatic conflict.

[Morgenstern]

Dramatic Conflict sounds very interesting. Someone go remind the devs how clever they are.

We know .

[Number Three]

Just to chime in, I find the idea of a base Spycraft rulebook without the Chase rules unthinkable.  It has brought a large amount of deserved attention, and I think it would be a huge mistake to leave it out of SC3.  While the other DramCons were a great expansion on the form, I don't think they are as essential.

[Doublebond]

I would suggest a supplemental material that would contain all the Dramatic Conflict rules, but that causes Spycraft 3 and 10kb to ship without those rules (they would have to, else you would be producing a supplement that parrots the core books), and SC3 can't do without chase, and 10kb can't do without chase and interrogation.

So that idea's shot.

[Agent 333]

Just to chime in, I find the idea of a base Spycraft rulebook without the Chase rules unthinkable.  It has brought a large amount of deserved attention, and I think it would be a huge mistake to leave it out of SC3.  While the other DramCons were a great expansion on the form, I don't think they are as essential.

And here I was about to suggest the opposite. To me the Chase rules, while cool, always seemed a bit... unnecessary. Yes, chases are a huge part of the spy/action movie genre, but for the most part there are two options: One character has feats and/or class abilities and the other doesn't, and the chase just goes in his favor (eventually), or the characters are on an even keel, and it comes down to a game of 'who can roll better', which seems kinda bleh to me. I don't know, maybe I haven't been using the chase rules right (or other dram-cons for that matter).

On the other hand, it's not a deal breaker for me, and I can see it as a selling point. I definitely don't want to see Dram-Con's disappear, though making them shorter/faster wouldn't be amiss...

[Aldus Vertten]

I would suggest a supplemental material that would contain all the Dramatic Conflict rules, but that causes Spycraft 3 and 10kb to ship without those rules (they would have to, else you would be producing a supplement that parrots the core books), and SC3 can't do without chase, and 10kb can't do without chase and interrogation.

So that idea's shot.

Last news we had about this is that they had a few ideas to make DramCom different, and wanted to publish them by themselves, so it could be used in all MC books. i'm hoping that they keep Chases in the spycraft the third, and if not, that at least a book with them it's published not far from the release of SC3& 10Kb...

[mathey]

Ideally, Dramatic Conflicts should be as fun for everybody as a good combat. And as relevant.

See, I think there's this always been a disconnect that gamers get about what "action" means. Sure, it CAN be dudes doing kung fu kicks and blazing away with automatic weapons, but it also can be cars speeding through Berlin or people running to escape a T-Rex or a hero braving a burning building to save a kid or an expert gang of criminals executing a heist...

Its just something where there's high stakes, genuine physical danger, and which elevates the pulse of the players/audience.

I'd try to expand the definition to include scenes like a defense lawyer making a closing argument or a femme fatale seducing a vital asset into giving up info or two cops playing mind games with a close-mouthed suspect...but that's probably a bit TOO broad. "Dramatic" is certainly applicable, though; there's not so much of a physical component, but its still vital to the characters and pits them against a great challenge.

So, whatever form car chases, heists, seductions, interrogations, and what not take on in 3.0, I'd like them to have the same sense of importance and variety as you get out of PCs and NPCs trying to kill each other with guns 'n' swords. How to do that without overwhelming the players and GM alike? Well, that's the tricky bit. I think they were onto something in 2.0 by expanding the premise beyond car chases, myself, but the problem became how exclusive, unbalanced, and fiddly things got.

On the one hand, you definitely want to reward a guy who made a Hacker (with a capital H) with opportunities to use those skillz in a way that merits attention and gets results. On the other hand, you don't want it to be little more than a stress test for skill optimization because then it can often become a foreseen conclusion - and foreseen conclusions are NOT Dramatic. There's got to be some tension, uncertainty, and genuine investment by the players to really juice 'em up.