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Author Topic: Captain on a larger scale?  (Read 1287 times)
Doublebond
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« on: February 17, 2010, 09:20:39 AM »

I was wondering if there's any chance of a class that has a relationship to the followers feat similar to the relationship the Captain class has to the Personal Lieutenant feat. While I understand I can't expect you guys to think of everything, I was more interested in whether the concept was possible as a class. Would this kind of class break the game or something? 
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 11:22:41 AM »

I think this sort of ability would probably be best used in a Master Class, with a pretty strong concept to back it up.
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aegis
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 01:29:57 PM »

Indeed! Master class if it's very specialized (i.e. setting-specific) or simply expert class if it's sufficiently generic to stick to different genres of characters. Just ideas following ... feel free to use or trash them. Wink

Prerequisites:
Followers, Impress 4+ ranks, Cha 13

Special ability:
Watch and Learn: Your Appearance modifier increases by 1 and you may spend 1 action die to boost as a whole any action taken by all your followers. When doing so, you roll and add the result of 2 dice.

Abilities:
Horde I: At Level 1, you gain More followers as a bonus feat and your Style feats count as Gear feats when determining your followers XP value.
Horde II: At Level 5, you can summon your followers twice per adventure during non-Dramatic scenes. Their TL is equal to your Career Level minus 3 (minimum 1). Also, any follower that can see or hear you gains fearless II and swarm at no cost.
Horde III: At Level 9, the number of followers you control increases by 10 and their XP value increases by 10 more. Also, you don't lose Reputation for lost followers.
Battle planning I: At Level 2, you gain 2 battle plans.
Battle planning II: At Level 7, you gain 2 additional battle plans (total 4).
Bonus feat: At Levels 3 and 7, you gain 1 additional Gear or Style feat.
Authority: At Level 4, your Charisma raises by 1 and you may attempt any Will saving throw one or more your followers failed, during your next Initiative Count. If you succeed, they ignore the full effect (and suffer the partial effect if any).
To Hell and Back: At Level 4, at the start of each scene, you may grant your followers 1 of your Skill or Terrain feats until the end of the scene.
At Level 8, you may do so with 2 of those feats.
Not in front of my men!: At Level 6, once per scene, when you suffer any condition other than destroyed (including dying), you may ignore it until the end of your next Initiative Count.
Stand Proud!: At Level 8, the Damage Save bonus of your followers increases by your Charisma modifier.
Lord of War: At Level 10, your followers always count as your teammates and may benefit from temporary feats. Also, they can be summoned during Dramatic scenes.

(Maybe it could need some "Synergy" ability that would allow the character to receive a greater benefit for Team and/or Cooperative checks when his followers are involved...)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 04:19:10 PM by aegis » Logged
Doublebond
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 01:42:26 PM »

That's pretty amazing. And, I might add, a massive amount of followers. Perhaps "Warlord" could be a possible title for the class?

I am by no means qualified to tell whether it's balanced or not, though.
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 03:01:53 PM »

Yeah, "Warlord" came to mind as a class name for me too.

The concept is certainly valid, but I don't think I would make a base class with it as the core concept - controlling swarms just seems like a higher level activity to me.
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 04:23:52 PM »

Indeed, that was just ideas in the air, but I believe they would be better used as part of a setting-specific master class. I can clearly picture this in my mind for Cormyr Purple High Knights in the Forgotten Realms, Clan Daymios in Rokugan, or Hogoblin Warlords in Eberron. Hum ... That might be something cool to add to the "part 2" of my Eberron conversion guide. If I figure something out, I'll try posting it here for feedback. Tongue
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 05:01:45 PM »

I look forward to it. Masterclass is indeed the way to go for a less generic treatment grounded in a particular world-lore.

I'm quite fond of "pet" classes (something Alex occassionaly makes fun of me for).
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 06:50:59 PM »

I look forward to it. Masterclass is indeed the way to go for a less generic treatment grounded in a particular world-lore.

I'm quite fond of "pet" classes (something Alex occassionaly makes fun of me for).

In one of my current groups we have a guy playing Scout 7 / Beastmaster 1 and we occasionally make [good natured] fun of him by addressing his pet, and then saying "Oh and bring your human too".  Or stuff of that nature.
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2010, 04:02:14 AM »

Hum, I've nothing to do this morning, so let's give it a try with the Purple High Knight

Purple High Knight (Master Class)

Purple Knights of Cormyr (a good Specialty IMO) are the defenders of the kingdom, the crown, and the people, in that order. They are a diverse group of faithful knights who obey a strict moral code. Though no cult is specifically attached to them, many prey for Helm, god of guardians. Their role as defenders of the kingdom is to patrol the land, often alone, scout outside its borders, regularly hunt evil hordes of gobelinoïds, and also perform some kind of judging role amongst the people. Indeed, when a Purple Knight is in town, many folks turn to him to solve their arguments and his advice is always taken into consideration.
Purple High Knights are one step higher in the hierarchy of the Order of Purple Knights. They spend less time in the field and more time behind a desk to address important issues regarding the Order. Though, they are still knights and spend a decent amount of time training, if not adventuring in the kingdom, often leading a decent amount of regular Purple Knights. They often escort the king - or nowadays the regent - during his official displacements and lead investigations on the most dangerous threats that lurk onto the kingdom of Cormyr.

Party Role: Combatant/Talker. Purple High Knights are trained for war, which makes them valuable assets during any fight - especially large ones. At the same time, they are consumed diplomats with a keen sense of human nature, and know how to choose words carefully.

Class Features
Requirements
: Followers, Charisma 13+, Impress 6+ ranks, Intimidate 6+ ranks
Favored Attributes: Charisma, Wisdom, Strength
Class Skills: Impress, Intimidate, Investigation, Notice, Resolve, Ride, Sense Motive, Tactics
Continuity: Choose 2 non-class skills. These become permanent Purple High Knight class skills for you.
Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier per level
Vitality: 9 + Con modifier per level

Table XX: The Purple High Knight
Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Def Init LS Leg Abilities
1 +0 +1 +0 +2 +1 +0 +2 +1 Horde I, heroic shield
2 +1 +2 +0 +3 +1 +1 +3 +1 To Hell and back
3 +2 +2 +1 +3 +2 +1 +3 +2 Wrath
4 +3 +2 +1 +4 +2 +2 +4 +2 Horde II, not in front of my men!
5 +3 +3 +1 +4 +3 +2 +4 +3 Lord of war

Class Abilities
Horde I
: You're used to command large groups of knights. At Level 1, you gain More Followers as a bonus feat and your Style feats count as Gear feats when determining your followers XP value.
Horde II: At Level 4, At Level 5, you can summon your followers twice per adventure during non-Dramatic scenes. Their TL is equal to your Career Level minus 3 (minimum 1). Also, any follower that can see or hear you gains fearless II and swarm at no cost.
Heroic Shield: Teamwork is the backbone of the Order, and you are one of its most prominent representatives. When you join a Cooperative check, any success you score increase the leader's result by 2 (4 with a critical success). Also, when making a Team check involving your Followers, they always use your check result.
To Hell and Back: The trust your men give you is unmatched. At Level 2, your Followers always count as your teammates and may benefit from temporary feats. Also, at the start of each scene, you may grant your Followers 1 of your Basic Combat or Terrain feats until the end of the scene.
Wrath: *Scowl* At Level 3, you gain a trick.
Scowl (Threaten trick): If the target fails the Will save prompted by stress damage, she is frightened.
Not in Front of My Men!: You never give up. At Level 4, once per scene, when you suffer any condition other than destroyed (including dying), you may ignore it until the end of your next Initiative Count.
Lord of War: Your command extends to entire battalions. At Level 5, the number of followers you control increases by 10 and their XP value increases by 10 more. Also, you don't lose Reputation for lost followers. Finally, they can be summoned during Dramatic scenes.

NPC "Class Ability" Quality:
Wrath: 2 XP
Not in front of my men!: 5 XP

Voila, but that made me realize that To hell and back (in the previous version) is useless without Lord of War, so I moved part of the ability. Dunno if the whole bunch is balanced though.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 05:06:31 AM by aegis » Logged
Doublebond
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2010, 07:06:32 PM »

Hum, I've nothing to do this morning, so let's give it a try with the Purple High Knight

Purple High Knight (Master Class)

Purple Knights of Cormyr (a good Specialty IMO) are the defenders of the kingdom, the crown, and the people, in that order. They are a diverse group of faithful knights who obey a strict moral code. Though no cult is specifically attached to them, many prey for Helm, god of guardians. Their role as defenders of the kingdom is to patrol the land, often alone, scout outside its borders, regularly hunt evil hordes of gobelino´ds, and also perform some kind of judging role amongst the people. Indeed, when a Purple Knight is in town, many folks turn to him to solve their arguments and his advice is always taken into consideration.
Purple High Knights are one step higher in the hierarchy of the Order of Purple Knights. They spend less time in the field and more time behind a desk to address important issues regarding the Order. Though, they are still knights and spend a decent amount of time training, if not adventuring in the kingdom, often leading a decent amount of regular Purple Knights. They often escort the king - or nowadays the regent - during his official displacements and lead investigations on the most dangerous threats that lurk onto the kingdom of Cormyr.

Party Role: Combatant/Talker. Purple High Knights are trained for war, which makes them valuable assets during any fight - especially large ones. At the same time, they are consumed diplomats with a keen sense of human nature, and know how to choose words carefully.

Class Features
Requirements
: Followers, Charisma 13+, Impress 6+ ranks, Intimidate 6+ ranks
Favored Attributes: Charisma, Wisdom, Strength
Class Skills: Impress, Intimidate, Investigation, Notice, Resolve, Ride, Sense Motive, Tactics
Continuity: Choose 2 non-class skills. These skills become permanent Purple High Knight class skills for you.
Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier per level
Vitality: 9 + Con modifier per level

Table XX: The Purple High Knight
Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will Def Init LS Leg Abilities
1 +0 +1 +0 +2 +1 +0 +2 +1 Horde I, heroic shield
2 +1 +2 +0 +3 +1 +1 +3 +1 To Hell and back
3 +2 +2 +1 +3 +2 +1 +3 +2 Wrath
4 +3 +2 +1 +4 +2 +2 +4 +2 Horde II, not in front of my men!
5 +3 +3 +1 +4 +3 +2 +4 +3 Lord of war

Class Abilities
Horde I
: You're used to command large groups of knights. At Level 1, you gain More Followers as a bonus feat and your Style feats count as Gear feats when determining your followers XP value.
Horde II: At Level 4, At Level 5, you can summon your followers twice per adventure during non-Dramatic scenes. Their TL is equal to your Career Level minus 3 (minimum 1). Also, any follower that can see or hear you gains fearless II and swarm at no cost.
Heroic Shield: Teamwork is the backbone of the Order, and you are one of its most prominent representatives. When you join a Cooperative check, any success you score increase the leader's result by 2 (4 with a critical success). Also, when making a Team check involving your Followers, they always use your check result.
To Hell and Back: The trust your men give you is unmatched. At Level 2, your Followers always count as your teammates and may benefit from temporary feats. Also, at the start of each scene, you may grant your Followers 1 of your Basic Combat or Terrain feats until the end of the scene.
Wrath: *Scowl* At Level 3, you gain a trick.
Scowl (Threaten trick): If the target fails the Will save prompted by stress damage, she is frightened.
Not in Front of My Men!: You never give up. At Level 4, once per scene, when you suffer any condition other than destroyed (including dying), you may ignore it until the end of your next Initiative Count.
Lord of War: Your command extends to entire battalions. At Level 5, the number of followers you control increases by 10 and their XP value increases by 10 more. Also, you don't lose Reputation for lost followers. Finally, they can be summoned during Dramatic scenes.

NPC "Class Ability" Quality:
Wrath: 3 XP
Not in front of my men!: 5 XP

Voila, but that made me realize that To hell and back (in the previous version) is useless without Lord of War, so I moved part of the ability. Dunno if the whole bunch is balanced though.

Very impressive, though the idea of a knight with his own personal army seems a little odd. It probably warrants a vague term for a title that would have a special meaning specific to the setting. "Reaper" might be a possible choice, or maybe even "sword" or "lance" (the idea being that these people are weapons of the king or other such fluff).

That being said, I feel the concept of a commander of a large group of people is sufficiently vague enough to warrant it as a base class, yet simple enough that it would have a hard time stretching across 10 levels, which makes me wonder what it truly belongs as.

And again, I can't judge whether it's balanced or not.
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2010, 09:53:38 AM »

I realize this may not be the time to mention it, but what about Wolf Pack, Coordinated Attack, and Horde feat trees?  I would think the ability to apply these (and the Captain's Battle Planning feature) to larger units would also be a part of the class. 

Actually, I can see two (okay, three) ways of building it: light bonuses to large numbers of people, a smaller group with significant bonuses (an elite unit), or a 'select bonus from the following list(s)', allowing one class to span both extremes.  (Personally, I like flexibility like this, but then again I like point buy  classless systems, too.)

Once we have a mass combat system, an Expert Class that has special bonuses with such contests (I'd start with the Seducer from SpyCraft, and look for similar abilities) may be the way for a Warlord to go.
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2010, 10:20:45 AM »

I've always found the biggest problem with this sort of concept [or even a team with a bunch of extra characters - be they personal lt's or animal partners] is that the game grinds to a virtual halt.  Which is to say I'm hoping for a mass combat system to be released.  Or maybe its just my group, which usually ends up with around 7-8 players, plus a potential equal number of "add ons", sometimes more [my record is 8 players with 20 controllable characters in FantasyCraft].

That said, I think thats an excellent class Aegis, great work.

I realize this may not be the time to mention it, but what about Wolf Pack, Coordinated Attack, and Horde feat trees?  I would think the ability to apply these (and the Captain's Battle Planning feature) to larger units would also be a part of the class. 

Aegis' class already includes this.  By making them teammates you can affect them with those sort of feats [His level 2 ability - To Hell and Back].  Unless you just mean conceptually that any class should include that as a feature?  Or to have a larger focus on group bonuses?
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