Questions on the era of FC guns.

[Sletchman]

Aside from incorporating auto-fire, strafe, suppressive fire, and cover fire actions and the weapon stat-lines themselves, is there much else missing?

Add in feat support and you've covered it.  Assuming that was directed at me.

[Morgenstern]

Was sort of a general observation on the thread, but I'm glad you mentioned feats.

My basic concept is to make effective use of cover fire and supressive fire into advanced actions purchased with proficiencies.

Autofire/Strafe and Burst fire, would be handled as tricks provided by the weapons themselves. Double-tap could be purchased as a trick (not locked behind a feat).

Then make it really easy to get the firearm proficiencies themselves - like as few as 3 to cover all things with a trigger:

Sidesarms - covering all 1-h firearms (pistols, revolvers, machine pistols)
Longarms - covering all 2-h firearms (shotguns, rifles, carbines)
Squad weapons - covering all firearms not meant to be carried while shooting (this includes some of the very high-power rifles)

This low number of categories/proficiency commitment is to allow modern heroes to consistently have proficiencies to spare for tricks, fortes, etc. So even a Level 1 Keeper cold pick up 'sidearms' and 'cover fire' and be ready to play, while a soldier could mix and match like crazy.

[Morgenstern]

How about this? (figure early gattling guns have an RF quality of about 6-8)

Weapon Qualities
Burst: The weapon allows the following trick.
Burst Fire (ranged attack trick; 3 shots): If the attack succeeds by 4 or more, inflict damage an additional time. If the attack succeeds by 10 or more, instead inflict damage 2 additional times. Roll damage for each hit separately.

Rapid Fire: This weapon can put an enormous number of rounds in the air in moments. The number following this quality describes how effective this rapid fire is. Weapons with this quality may be used to make Autofire and Strafe Attacks.
Autofire (Rapid Fire Full Attack Action; RF x 2 shots): Your attack check and damage rolls gain a bonus equal to the weapon’s Rapid Fire quality. If the attack succeeds by 2 or more, inflict damage an additional time. If the attack succeeds by 4 or more, instead inflict damage 2 additional times. If the attack succeeds by 10 or more, instead inflict damage 3 additional times. Roll damage for each hit separately.
Strafe (Rapid Fire Full Attack Action; RF x 3 shots): Choose a 45-degree cone (see diagram). Proceeding in order from nearest to farthest, a number of characters up to the weapon’s RF quality (including allies) in the cone with line of sight to you must make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + the weapon’s RF bonus – range penalties). If they fail, they take damage from a single round from the weapon. Roll damage for each hit separately.

I can immediately envision a gunner-oriented feat that increases the number of targets that can be struck by strafe and probably amps up the save DC by about +5...

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

(Ah, now I remember what I wanted.)

For my purposes I don't care about modern weapon qualities.  I only care about two things with which to take my guns away from bullets and into firing magic:

1. All X number of shots per purchase (i.e. what's now contained in the Powder&shot entry of the Black Powder Weapons table) should fit into one object probably no bigger than a fist.  I'm thinking this could be a stereotypical "power crystal".
2. A "you must wait this long before you're charged for another shot" rather than "you must use up this many Handle Item actions" firing rate limit.

[MilitiaJim]

A data point for the weapons cost over time chart:  I bought a battle axe for $110 in 2004, S&H included.

I am used to Spycraft's autofire/strafe rules, and this is different.  I am yet unsure about the change.

I really like knocking down the number of proficiencies.  Shotguns and SMGs being separate proficiencies still bugs me.

[Morgenstern]

I am used to Spycraft's autofire/strafe rules, and this is different.  I am yet unsure about the change.

*chuckle* Sure. They're new. But I can't imagine you'd prefer SC 2.0 autofire. Try giving a AK or M16 about RF 4 and see how the behavior on a battlemat tickles you. It could use some test and feedback.

I'm looking into a matching Rock and Roll chain of feats. Still formulating, but figure Basics will up the RF (of weapons that have RF) by +1. Probably be able to Strafe in 90 degree cones as part of the chain.

[MilitiaJim]

*chuckle* Sure. They're new. But I can't imagine you'd prefer SC 2.0 autofire. Try giving a AK or M16 about RF 4 and see how the behavior on a battlemat tickles you. It could use some test and feedback.

It seems to be pretty near a wash on complexity, more benefit to a slightly higher roll, max hits at the same dice point.

Perhaps start RF weapons with 90 degree cone and restrict bulky/mounted weapons to a 45 degree cone.  (Except depending on how you do your tripod you may well be good for 90 degrees.)

[Side question how do you type out the little degree symbol?]

[Morgenstern]

I don't have my SC 2.0 here. Could you refresh me on the autofire and strafe rules therein? I may be remembering SC first ed.

[MilitiaJim]

Target gets +1 Def per burst with Autofire.  Per 4 that the attacker's roll beats the Def, an additional bullet hits.  (Full action.)

Targets of a strafe receive +2 Def per target AND each five foot gap between targets.  (Full action.)

Targets of a burst receive no bonus to Defense, for each 5 that the target's Def is beaten by the attacker's roll, an extra bullet is taken.  (Half action.)

In aa cases, one roll.  On the strafe, the guy at the end will probably be ok unless you get really lucky.  This does simulate my experience at the machine gun range quite well.

[TheAuldGrump]

Was sort of a general observation on the thread, but I'm glad you mentioned feats.

My basic concept is to make effective use of cover fire and supressive fire into advanced actions purchased with proficiencies.

Heh - you may want to use weapon stats to limit the effectiveness. I have seen a Gatling gun aimed at a target thirty yards away, put more than sixty shots in the air, and hit the target three times.... Not user error, either - the rotating barrels bounce all over the freakin' place!  (The Maxim, by comparison, hit maybe fifty times - hard to tell on some of them though, the middle five inches of the target was just gone. I didn't put enough lead through the Mondragon to really give a fair number, but it wasn't bad.)

The Auld Grump

[Sletchman]

This seems as good a place as any to ask what people think about more modern armour in MasterCraft.  Take a kevlar vest.  In spycraft it has DR2/4.  How would you model that in MasterCraft?  DR2 with Ranged Resistance 2?  That means it always stops even armour piercing rounds to some degree [which actually seems like a reasonable solution].  How about motorcycle suits, with their 4/1?

For the record, I am in favour doing away with DR X/Y, I really like the MasterCraft way of doing most things.

[Crafty_Alex]

All will be answered soon^TM, Turnip. You can pretty easily intuit where we're going from some of the base changes you see in FC. As for the guns thing - we've made no specific decision. This is Morg's musings

[Sletchman]

All will be answered soon^TM, Turnip. You can pretty easily intuit where we're going from some of the base changes you see in FC. As for the guns thing - we've made no specific decision. This is Morg's musings

I am very certainly looking forward to that.  I'm mainly pondering because I'm seriously considering running my next game with MasterCraft [would have been SpyCraft], because I'm growing to like it more and more.  I know better then to ask for a date, so suffice it to say I can't wait for an announcement - with a bit of luck most of my work will be done by the experts.

[Morgenstern]

Tightened this idea up a little

Weapon Qualities
Burst: The weapon allows the following trick.

Burst Fire (Ranged Attack Trick; 3 shots): If the attack succeeds by 4 or more, inflict damage an additional time. If the attack succeeds by 10 or more, instead inflict damage 2 additional times. Roll damage for each hit separately.

Rapid Fire: This weapon can put an enormous number of rounds in the air in moments. The number following this quality describes how effective this rapid fire is. Weapons with this quality may be used to make Autofire, Spray and Pray, and Walking Fire Attacks.

Autofire (1 Full Action; Ranged Attack Action; RF x 2 shots): If the attack succeeds by 2 or more, inflict damage an additional time. If the attack succeeds by 4 or more, instead inflict damage 2 additional times. If the attack succeeds by 10 or more, instead inflict damage 3 additional times. Roll damage for each hit separately, adding the weapon's RF quality to the damage of each hit. This attack may not be converted into a critical hit.

Spray and Pray (1 Half Action; Ranged Attack Action; RF x 3 shots): Choose a 90-degree cone. Proceeding in order from nearest to farthest, a number of characters up to the weapon’s RF quality (including allies) in the cone with line of sight to you must make a Reflex Save (DC 5 + the weapon’s RF bonus – range penalties). If they fail, they take damage from a single round from the weapon. Roll damage for each hit separately.

Walking Fire (1 Full Action; Ranged Attack Action; RF x 3 shots): Choose a continuous path of 5-ft. squares with a length of up to the weapon’s RF quality and within the weapon's range. You may not skip squares, target squares more than once, or target a square directly behind another square already selected.  
Make a single attack check, comparing the result to the Defense of each character standing in a target square, from one end of path to the other. Each target gains a cumulative +2 bonus to Defense (i.e. the first target gains a +2 bonus to Defense, the second target gains a +4 bonus to Defense, the third target gains a +6 bonus to Defense, and so on). Each target hit suffers the weapon’s standard damage. This attack may not be converted into a critical hit.
Special Note: Characters larger than a single square may be targeted and hit multiple times as if each square were a separate target.

Rock and Roll
Budda-budda-budda-budda-budda!
Prerequisites: Longarms Forte or Squad Weapons forte.
Benefit: When you wield a firearm with the rapid fire quality, its rapid fire quality increases by 1. When you make a spray and pray or walking fire attack, the number of shots required is reduced to RF x 2.

Assault weapon: RF 4-5
Squad weapon/early minigun: RF 5-6
Modern minigun: RF 6-8

[Sletchman]

Neat.  I'm not sure about walking fire thought, is it some kind of crazy pirouette move?  Like in Underworld where Seline uses her unlimited clip automatic pistols to shoot through the floor?  Or some specialised charge move?

I like spray and pray, especially if you can do it from cover.  Could make a great cover fire style thing.