Author Topic: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster  (Read 3755 times)

pawsplay

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I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« on: January 30, 2010, 12:00:18 AM »
I really like it. It's kind of hard to make a weapon master character who is not "Soldier, but more so," and I think emphasizing the effects the character's skill has on others was a novel approach. It also helps the Edgemaster be a team player instead of a one-trip murder monkey.

When I first looked at the class, I was sort of baffled by Wrestling Basics as a requirement, although logically many combat experts would have some good moves. However, looking more closely, I noticed that it granted +1 defense, offered a useful stance if you were disarmed, and put the Edgemaster within close reach of Wrestling Mastery, which gives you a trick you could use in conjunction with Master's Touch. I don't know how much of that was deliberate design, but it works out well.

I also like the ability to gain a temporary basics or mastery melee feat. The most logical use is to use it with your favorite weapon to go from Basics to Mastery. However, it also useful for a more generalist character who is simply deadly with anything they hold.  In fact, they could focus on a set of feats based on the stance and tricks offered rather than the weapon, then use this to gain some basic bonuses with any weapon and make use of their favorite stance. Also, Basics feats grant a stance, so this ability can be used to add a stance that works with whatever weapon is being currently used.

Morgenstern

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2010, 04:48:59 AM »
Thank you.

*basks in the warm glow*

I'm glad you are seeing the layers of utility Wrestling Basics brings to a complete build. It's certainly triggered a few "buwhaa?" responses upon first glace.
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aegis

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 07:36:36 AM »
Hey, not exactly the same class but I have to mention this!

I used to play the Witchfire trilogy some time ago now, and I recently decided to try it again with my new table, but this time in the Iron Kingdoms campaign setting and with Fantasy Craft's rules. So I bought IK's two core books and started reading. I noticed some cool stuff, including really neat new classes, and already tried to convert one or two. Then, I stumbled on the Ballistic Mage (or whatever his name in English).

How could I convert this? Oh I know, I'll make a new Expert Class, based on the Rune Knight which has similar abilities but with a melee weapon. I don't like the Rune Knight anyway. So I flip my FC book open... Rune Knight... So, what to change? Prerequisites: any weapon. Huh? Always thought it was a melee weapon. Runes... work with ranged weapons (in this case guns) too. Core ability... same thing. Other abilities... still work very nice with a gun. WTF?

And then I realized. The Rune Knight is just awesome! I always thought it was meant for some kind of elven warrior-mage or orc runic-barbarian, but that's all. Only what pictures can't show you, is how versatile your phrasing and choice of abilities are! This is pure genius and it sticks just perfectly with a Ballistic Mage and, now I can see, many other concepts. Maybe it was already obvious for everyone else but until then, I always thought the Rune Knight to be the less "fun and/or versatile", conceptually speaking, class of the book. Now I have changed my mind.

This game rocks!  ;D

Sletchman

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 07:55:50 AM »
I did the same thing you did [just so you know in english its called Gun Mage, I prefer the translation] when thinking of Iron Kingdom's FC.

If only there was some magical enhancement that let guns fire more often, or fire magical things or something.  It would be perfect.

To add to the spirit of the thread, I really like the Paladin, so much I'm playing 2 different ones each week.  One is a Human Captain / Paladin, and the other is a Giant Priest / Paladin.  I just love the way its a hybrid of two of my favourite classes, and how its flavour is very much what you make it [much like the priest].

Crafty_Alex

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 09:06:36 AM »
Hey, not exactly the same class but I have to mention this!

I used to play the Witchfire trilogy some time ago now, and I recently decided to try it again with my new table, but this time in the Iron Kingdoms campaign setting and with Fantasy Craft's rules. So I bought IK's two core books and started reading. I noticed some cool stuff, including really neat new classes, and already tried to convert one or two. Then, I stumbled on the Ballistic Mage (or whatever his name in English).

How could I convert this? Oh I know, I'll make a new Expert Class, based on the Rune Knight which has similar abilities but with a melee weapon. I don't like the Rune Knight anyway. So I flip my FC book open... Rune Knight... So, what to change? Prerequisites: any weapon. Huh? Always thought it was a melee weapon. Runes... work with ranged weapons (in this case guns) too. Core ability... same thing. Other abilities... still work very nice with a gun. WTF?

And then I realized. The Rune Knight is just awesome! I always thought it was meant for some kind of elven warrior-mage or orc runic-barbarian, but that's all. Only what pictures can't show you, is how versatile your phrasing and choice of abilities are! This is pure genius and it sticks just perfectly with a Ballistic Mage and, now I can see, many other concepts. Maybe it was already obvious for everyone else but until then, I always thought the Rune Knight to be the less "fun and/or versatile", conceptually speaking, class of the book. Now I have changed my mind.

This game rocks!  ;D

Hehe. Thank you. I was very particular about ensuring the Rune Knight would be usable as a Spellsword, Arcane Archer, or Gun Mage (as they're all pretty much the same thing - warrior/wizard who enhances his attacks with magic power). As it turns out, I've done some work for the Iron Kingdoms back in the day...  ;)
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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2010, 09:09:21 AM »
If only there was some magical enhancement that let guns fire more often, or fire magical things or something.  It would be perfect.

The enhancement for making guns fire more often is the Quick Draw feat and the bandolier - that will vastly improve your firing/reloading speed, and considering the incredible amount of damage a gun delivers in this game, that's probably plenty :) As for shooting magical things with a gun...spell points + Runecarved will let you basically "magic up" every bullet you shoot.
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Eric Anondson

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2010, 12:13:54 PM »
I was very particular about ensuring the Rune Knight would be usable as a Spellsword, Arcane Archer, or Gun Mage (as they're all pretty much the same thing - warrior/wizard who enhances his attacks with magic power).
I think it works mildly well for many fighting-priests concepts as well. Pretty nice. Swapping Circle of Power for a Step up a Path instead would make it nearly ideal.

Sletchman

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2010, 12:37:26 PM »
If only there was some magical enhancement that let guns fire more often, or fire magical things or something.  It would be perfect.

The enhancement for making guns fire more often is the Quick Draw feat and the bandolier - that will vastly improve your firing/reloading speed, and considering the incredible amount of damage a gun delivers in this game, that's probably plenty :) As for shooting magical things with a gun...spell points + Runecarved will let you basically "magic up" every bullet you shoot.

Yeah I know [and should have emphasised more often], but I meant something more like this:

Gun Magery Basics
Pre-requisites: Black Powder Forte
Benefits: You may as a Handle Item action, spend any number of spell points to reduce the load actions required for the target firearm by the number spent.  You also gain a stance.
Arcane Triggerman [Stance]: While you have spellpoints remaining, your firearm attacks gain +1 to hit and +3 damage.

And perhaps:

Arcane Ammo Source [Greater Charm - 20 REP]
This weapon no longer needs amunition to function, and provides an unlimited supply of standard non-upgradable projectiles.  This has no effect on load time.  If this upgrade isn't on a weapon, its benefits apply to a single projectile weapon.

Mystical Loading Assistant [Essence - 8 REP per +1]
The weapons load time is reduced by the value of the essence. If this upgrade isn't on a weapon, its benefit applies to a single projectile weapon.  **Needs better wording I reckon**

3d6 damage seems good, until you party up with an archer - I did, and suddenly my blackpowder user seemed a bit crap [same has happened with other guys I game with].  I know historically this is what bows did, but still, firing every other round doesn't do it for me.  Plus arcane ammo is not just for guns, bows that fire "force" arrows are common enough in fantasy.

aegis

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2010, 01:24:46 PM »
Not sure about the feat, but I find the Charm and Essence just fine. I'll certainly make good use of them, thanks. ;)

Crafty_Alex

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 01:27:32 PM »
I was very particular about ensuring the Rune Knight would be usable as a Spellsword, Arcane Archer, or Gun Mage (as they're all pretty much the same thing - warrior/wizard who enhances his attacks with magic power).
I think it works mildly well for many fighting-priests concepts as well. Pretty nice. Swapping Circle of Power for a Step up a Path instead would make it nearly ideal.

If you had access to the Path of Magic, it would work fine - a number of the abilities require the expediture of spell points to work. The Paladin is our fighting-priest type :)
"Alex doesn't feel anything. He's more word processor than man anymore." - Krensky

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo da Vinci

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Eric Anondson

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 06:29:08 PM »
The Paladin is our fighting-priest type :)
But if you are a low-Charisma fighting priest Paladin is not an option. *shrug* just saying. I know I can't get everything. ;)

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 08:38:03 PM »
But if you are a low-Charisma fighting priest Paladin is not an option. *shrug* just saying.

If you do have a low Charisma, then you're, basically, a Soldier with an Alignment :P

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Barbacobra

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2012, 04:00:35 PM »
When I first looked at the class, I was sort of baffled by Wrestling Basics as a requirement, although logically many combat experts would have some good moves. However, looking more closely, I noticed that it granted +1 defense, offered a useful stance if you were disarmed, and put the Edgemaster within close reach of Wrestling Mastery, which gives you a trick you could use in conjunction with Master's Touch. I don't know how much of that was deliberate design, but it works out well.

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but you could use Wrestling Basics and Quick Draw to make an iaijutsu wrestler. Once you are in Open Stance, you use a free handle item action to draw your sword, make an attack, then sheath the sword with another free handle item action. Now you have two hands free and are ready to grapple! Mix in Snake Strike for more fun.

How would quick draw work with the Handle Item Grapple Benefit?

Crafty_Pat

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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2012, 11:50:45 PM »
How would quick draw work with the Handle Item Grapple Benefit?

I would probably not allow it - unless maybe the Athletics check was a critical success - but that's just me. :)
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Re: I am really impressed with the design of the Edgemaster
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2012, 07:01:06 AM »
When I first looked at the class, I was sort of baffled by Wrestling Basics as a requirement, although logically many combat experts would have some good moves. However, looking more closely, I noticed that it granted +1 defense, offered a useful stance if you were disarmed, and put the Edgemaster within close reach of Wrestling Mastery, which gives you a trick you could use in conjunction with Master's Touch. I don't know how much of that was deliberate design, but it works out well.

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but you could use Wrestling Basics and Quick Draw to make an iaijutsu wrestler. Once you are in Open Stance, you use a free handle item action to draw your sword, make an attack, then sheath the sword with another free handle item action. Now you have two hands free and are ready to grapple! Mix in Snake Strike for more fun.

How would quick draw work with the Handle Item Grapple Benefit?

There's a not-explicit suggestion that Quick Draw would let you Handle Item in a Grapple without using Athletics-

Quote from: FantasyCraft pg 219 "Grapple"
...the only non-free action any grapple participant may take is an opposed full-action Athletics check..."

I don't remember if there was an official ruling on that or not, but so as long as what you want to do is perform a normal Handle Item and not the cool Benefit version (meaning no handling your opponent's gear, or unbuckling armor), then maybe.