Movie News, Reviews, & Reactions 2010

[Nepenthe]

Anyone bashing Bay but praising either of the latter two Bourne movies (or Quantum of Solace) IMO is just a bandwagon jumper. The entire criticism directed at him is AT LEAST as true for anything they've let Dan Bradley's ad-nauseam (almost literally) jump-cutting do, yet he only seems to gather (unwarranted) praise for his work.

[Desertpuma]

For him, it would look better if he zoomed out more often. The guy got his start doing music videos and he has yet to learn that he can pull back and be just fine.

The last two Bourne films were directed by Paul Greengrass and he is a believer of putting you in the action "shaky-cam" style but his non-combat parts of the film are just fine.

[Nepenthe]

For him, it would look better if he zoomed out more often. The guy got his start doing music videos and he has yet to learn that he can pull back and be just fine.

The last two Bourne films were directed by Paul Greengrass and he is a believer of putting you in the action "shaky-cam" style but his non-combat parts of the film are just fine.

Actually Dan Bradley was the 2nd unit director for both Supremacy and Ultimatum (and Quantum). It's his work you see in the action scenes, Greengrass's in the "non-combat parts", as you put it.

[MilitiaJim]

I know combat and wrestling are chaotic and jerky when you're in them, but knock it off already.  Let the stuntmen, and occasional actor, show off their work dammit.

[mathey]

Anyone bashing Bay but praising either of the latter two Bourne movies (or Quantum of Solace) IMO is just a bandwagon jumper. The entire criticism directed at him is AT LEAST as true for anything they've let Dan Bradley's ad-nauseam (almost literally) jump-cutting do, yet he only seems to gather (unwarranted) praise for his work.

Error. Does not compute.

I'd love to do a frame-by-frame comparison of Bourne Ultimatum and, Hell, ANY Michael Bay movie. There are certainly cinema verite gimmicks in both and lots of quick cuts, but that's about where the similarities end.

[Desertpuma]

The last two Bourne films were directed by Paul Greengrass and he is a believer of putting you in the action "shaky-cam" style but his non-combat parts of the film are just fine.

Actually Dan Bradley was the 2nd unit director for both Supremacy and Ultimatum (and Quantum). It's his work you see in the action scenes, Greengrass's in the "non-combat parts", as you put it.

Actually Paul Greengrass is known for doing a lot of handheld camera work and being directly involved in almost every shot. 2nd Unit is usually scenery shots and the like or if they are running behind schedule and need help on some filler not related to the main story. I can guarantee you that Greengrass was on the handheld for all the cinema verite moments in he Bourne films and orchestrating all the combat scenes personally.

[Nepenthe]

The last two Bourne films were directed by Paul Greengrass and he is a believer of putting you in the action "shaky-cam" style but his non-combat parts of the film are just fine.

Actually Dan Bradley was the 2nd unit director for both Supremacy and Ultimatum (and Quantum). It's his work you see in the action scenes, Greengrass's in the "non-combat parts", as you put it.

Actually Paul Greengrass is known for doing a lot of handheld camera work and being directly involved in almost every shot. 2nd Unit is usually scenery shots and the like or if they are running behind schedule and need help on some filler not related to the main story. I can guarantee you that Greengrass was on the handheld for all the cinema verite moments in he Bourne films and orchestrating all the combat scenes personally.

2nd unit in Hollywood blockbusters is generally the stunt unit (2nd unit directors being generally experienced stunt coordinators - not generally a sign the guy's are doing scenery shots?  ). Hence Bradley's involvement with Quantum. I have no knowledge of Greengrass's involvement with the stuntwork, so I won't comment with it.

Considering the importance of editing in the technique, I'm sure there's no reason to underestimate the importance of the director himself over the final product even for the nominally 2nd unit scenes.

[mathey]

2nd unit in Hollywood blockbusters is generally the stunt unit (2nd unit directors being generally experienced stunt coordinators - not generally a sign the guy's are doing scenery shots?  ). Hence Bradley's involvement with Quantum. I have no knowledge of Greengrass's involvement with the stuntwork, so I won't comment with it.

Considering the importance of editing in the technique, I'm sure there's no reason to underestimate the importance of the director himself over the final product even for the nominally 2nd unit scenes.

Yeah, the director is usually heavily involved in editing, as far as I understand the film making process; if he's not in the room with the editors, he's at least reviewing their cuts. Even if he's not personally involved in the shooting of action sequences by the stunt guys, he's also been involved in storyboarding/planning/location-scouting since long before they get around to throwing guys through windows. Then there's the fact he tends to have a working relationship with the cinematographer/director-of-photography, who in turn has perhaps the most influence on the "look" of the film via camera placement. Oliver Wood was the D.P. on all three Bourne movies.

There's a video feature about the shooting of the rooftop chase in Ultimatum, actually. I don't recall seeing much of Greengrass, but there definitely was another Go To Guy for using the handheld. I think he may have even been thrown through the window on safety wires after the stunt guy for that one jump Bourne makes? Its been a while since I watched it.

Anyway, of the four Greengrass films I've seen (Bloody Sunday, Bourne Supremacy, Bourne Ultimatum, and Green Zone), all of them have featured cinema verite/shaky-cam/pseudo-documentary camerawork. He's been working that way apparently since he started in the late 80's. I still contend its a very distinct look and visual style compared to the music video flash of Bay.

[Nepenthe]

I'd also like to point out that I don't think the jump-cutting overused in Quantum and IIRC the latter two Bourne movies has much, if anything, to do with Cinéma vérité. :/

[Agent 333]

My two cents: I can't stand the Shaky-Cam crap in Bourne any more than I can stand the crappy action sequences in Transformers. They both need to take lessons in cinematics and choreography.

[Sletchman]

My problem with Transformers was less about the over use of shaky-action-cam [which I dislike in any film, including Bond and Bourne] and more about the other things wrong with it [plot, characters, sequencing, writing, etc].  I will still watch Transformers 3 though, but it won't be a priority with the dozens of other films I'm looking forward to coming out at the same time - I will probably wait till I can spend $2 to rent it on dvd.

[Desertpuma]

Everybody started using shaky-action-cam in films once Spielberg used it in Saving Private Ryan. Prior to that, it was strictly in use by COPS on TV.

[MilitiaJim]

Everybody started using shaky-action-cam in films once Spielberg used it in Saving Private Ryan.

They took the training battalion down to see it.  It was cool as hell at the time.  Now I'm starting to see it as a crummy gimmick that has a use for disguising lousy fight choreography and it makes me think less of those who use it.

[Nepenthe]

Now I'm starting to see it as a crummy gimmick that has a use for disguising lousy fight choreography and it makes me think less of those who use it.

*thumbsup*

[ThunderMonkey]

Like any camera technique, I think it depends upon the film and the style of the filmmaker. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I thought the shaky cam was used very well with the Battlestar Galactica series (namely the dogfighting scenes), and in "District 9".

My problems with movies tend to more along the lines with predictable dialog (in which I will blurt out the lines before the actors in movies I haven't seen), stupid plotlines and generally bad acting, and less upon the camera techniques (perhaps, I'm just not nuance enough to reach that point.)