Social Status as an Origin

[Crafty_Pat]

2. How are you planning to offset the benefits of this bonus Renown/other stuff? In order to balance it against other characters who don't have those benefits, I mean.

Since everyone ends up with a modifier at some point then it ends up balanced against itself (at least it has in previous incarnations of these rules, all pre FantasyCraft of course).

A modifier to what, exactly?

[Wolverine]

How about this: Players get to pick (or are randomly assigned) a social status before they pick their Origins. The status grants them some bonuses (and possibly penalties) as well as limiting their Speciality options (though not as much as Limited Specialities would).

[Sletchman]

Along similiar lines to what wolverine mentioned, I'd make it a third part of the players Origin.  Make them all equal, to a point value you set yourself.

Of the top of my head [I've done no math, and its probably way off]:

Noble Born
Your Lifestyle increases by 1.
You gain 1 Noble Renown at level 1.
You only gain bonus feats from your Speciality if it is [related specialities]

Working Class
You gain +2 Prudence.
You gain an additional Craft focus.

Lower Class
Your stress damage DC's are increased by 4.
You gain +2 prestidigitation and sneak.
You have Favoured Class [Burglar and Scout].

That way you end up with Noble Born Elf Aristocrat / Working Class Pech Artisan / Lower Class Goblin Rogue.  Or any other combination.  You could also add as many social starting options as you wanted, and could put anything in it, as long as it balances with Origins and each other.

[BPIJonathan]

Along similar lines to what wolverine mentioned, I'd make it a third part of the players Origin.  Make them all equal, to a point value you set yourself.

<snip>.

That way you end up with Noble Born Elf Aristocrat / Working Class Pech Artisan / Lower Class Goblin Rogue.  Or any other combination.  You could also add as many social starting options as you wanted, and could put anything in it, as long as it balances with Origins and each other.

I think this is along the lines of what I was thinking about. This helps quite a bit, so I can see some of the thoughts of others. Thanks.

[Krensky]

That was the suggestion I was going to make when I read your question at lunch, but I just got home.

[tenebrae]

I'd avoid things like

You only gain bonus feats from your Speciality if it is [related specialities]
You have Favoured Class [Burglar and Scout].

since they're only useful for certain builds (e.g. elves can benefit from both, but humans get nothing from either).

[Sletchman]

I'd avoid things like

You only gain bonus feats from your Speciality if it is [related specialities]
You have Favoured Class [Burglar and Scout].

since they're only useful for certain builds (e.g. elves can benefit from both, but humans get nothing from either).

True.  Thats what you get for off the cuff.  In hindsight I'd probably make them more skill and status related, and try avoid most thing that the existing origins already have, to avoid any weird interactions [eg. "What happens when I get ability X twice" or "How does X + Y stack?"].  Also stops certain choices being immediately better then others, and stops people going "why should I be middle class, lower class or noble is so obviously better then everything".

[Crafty_Pat]

It'll make your product not so compatible with other Fantasy Craft material (in that it would be granting benefits to characters with no offset penalties), but that's only important if you're looking to interlock with the rest of the library.

[Morgenstern]

The biggest question is do ALL players choose one of these? If so, then the players are on even footing with each other and then it's just a question of do you want make challenges harder or rewards smaller? Neither is strictly required, but they may find the heroic struggle less of a struggle or maybe a bit less heroic without something going into the other pan of the scales.

If only some players are going to access this third facet of their Origin, you need to either make the packages are genuinely zero summ (and remember, +2/-2 is NOT zero sum), of have the weight in the opposing pan only apply to those who do employ ths additional option. A set up like that would allow 'standard' Fantasycraft player characters to come and go - not a critical concern for most settings, but there you have it.

[aegis]

You can make it a campaign quality, couldn't you? Maybe you can also add several disadvantages when the players try to interact with characters of other social classes, like Reviled, a starting percentage penalty to Haggle checks, maybe more difficulty or even the total impossibility to access some Renowns/Holdings (non-noble cannot own land). For nobility, I would also see a Code of honor campaign quality fit quite nicely.

+2/-2 is NOT zero sum

In terms of characteristics? Or Origin attributes?

[Khaalis]

This is definitely a topic I too have been mulling over how to implement, as castes are a very important part of my world, as are "factions".  I am trying to figure out how to implement Renown with these concepts.

For instance, giant and dragons each rule 1/2 of the largest continent. They are currently in a "cold war" status. As such characters from the draconic nation are not well received in the giant lands, and vice versa. However, some race are better off than others, for instance a human from the giant lands would likely be able to get by with little to no major incident unless their heritage becomes an open issue, whereas any of the giant-kin races would stand out like a sore thumb in the draconic lands and suffer serious social issues because of it.


Additionally, within each nation (draconic, giant and fey are the 3 ruling classes of the world), there are various social castes.  For instance in the draconic empire there are basically 9 tiers to the caste system.
1 - The Emperor/Empress (Dragon only)
2 - Council Members - A leader of one of the Noble Houses (Dragon only)
3 - Imperials - all other true-born Dragons
4 - Exalted - Drakes (Truescale or Elemental)
5 - Honored - All dragonbloods (Lesser Drakes, Kobolds, Dragonborn, those w/Draconic Legacy)
6 - Notables - Anyone with Draconic Heritage, those who are Invested with this Rank by a Council Member
7 - Vassal - Non-draconic/Non-giant-blood citizens (includes fey in some territories)
8 - Unclean - Any w/giant-blood or Outsider-blood (includes fey in some territories)
9 - Enemy - Giants & Outsiders


For this "factional" part of Origin (e.g. Dragon vs Giant), I am thinking of using Disposition.  For instance anyone from the giant lands would suffer a -25 Disposition versus anyone from the Draconic empire of caste Honored or above, and -10 versus Notables and Vassals.


I am thinking that Disposition would also work in the same manner between levels of the same cast, perhaps at a -2 Disposition per step (with the exception of Unclean & Enemies which already have their Disposition defined).  In this case, a Vassal (such as a human) would be at a -14 Disposition when dealing with the Emperor/Empress.


Does this seem like a sound way to handle this topic?

[BPIJonathan]

The biggest question is do ALL players choose one of these?

Yes, its a campaign requirement. The social standing of the characters not only affects how the characters in the world around them react to them but how they react to each other. However, I have allowed in the past for all characters to be from the same social standing, but usually not.