Author Topic: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel  (Read 6250 times)

SilvercatMoonpaw

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 2024
  • May Contain Nuts
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #90 on: August 06, 2017, 04:22:34 AM »
So if you're using guns you want significant characters to be using some kind of armor, and/or to have some kind of armor substitute like a version of Beefy Heroes (which is Resistance rather than DR, but it's a similar principle).

Takeru

  • Operative
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
  • Mayor Janus of Whitestone
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2017, 12:42:05 AM »
Seems like. The firearms presented in this thread, like real firearms, don't stack up to armor well *at all*.  Even if you allow someone to somehow make Armor-Piercing Guns firing Armor-Piercing Bullets, both Crossbows and Bows do that one better by often having innate AP on the arrow already and sometimes having innate AP on the thing firing it.

Seems like they're pretty balanced for FC combat.
It's flawed and unsupported, but there's a diamond in that rough.

SilvercatMoonpaw

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 2024
  • May Contain Nuts
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #92 on: August 07, 2017, 04:36:34 AM »
Thanks.  I really want to do a setting that's pretty modern-day-ish (considering people still like to use melee weapons it's more about Rule of Cool anachronisms) but wasn't sure how to do guns.

Slashes-With-Claws

  • Handler
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • I will eat your heart!
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2017, 06:40:54 AM »
Tak explained the effect of guns well.  A bow user can get loads of AP, a longbow with no Load Quality gets AP 2, the Standard Arrows are another AP 2, and Bow Mastery is yet another AP 2 for a total of AP 6.  Crossbows of course can get even more, and you can stack the AP Quality on top to get AP 13 with a Heavy Crossbow.

So guns are great against unarmored or lightly armored targets, but the soft lead suffers against heavy armor and gives very sporadic results due to the wide damage range.

On another note.  I put the Cavalry B/M/S on the first page.  I also removed the Pureblood Species Feats due to balance reasons.

SilvercatMoonpaw

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 2024
  • May Contain Nuts
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2017, 08:17:59 AM »
Crossbows of course can get even more, and you can stack the AP Quality on top to get AP 13 with a Heavy Crossbow.

So guns are great against unarmored or lightly armored targets, but the soft lead suffers against heavy armor and gives very sporadic results due to the wide damage range.
Of course there's a limit to how good AP is: there isn't any use to have AP 13 if you don't often go up against opponents with that much or more.  I think the highest in the core Bestiary is DR 8?  Higher damage might be preferable.

Of course that's Bows vs Guns.  Melee vs Guns might be less fair: I haven't brushed up on my FC rules recently, but I don't think there's any penalty for using ranged weapons at melee range.  Armor's one way, but I might need to come up with some unarmored equivalent (I like unarmored anime speed-warriors) or just figure out which feats and stuff that pump up Defense.

Also:
A-Team Firing
Type: Terrain
Just because you want to take them alive doesn't mean you need to leave the scenery standing.
Prerequisites: Black Powder forte, Cha 13+
Benefit: If you succeed at an Ambush check you may choose to have all Black Powder damage done by you and your allies convert to Stress damage without suffer the -4 attack penalty.  This damage still counts as lethal damage for the purposes of destroying objects.  You cannot choose to convert the damage of only some of your allies: you must choose all or none.

I was going to make it a Campaign Quality (with AD activation) but I felt like I didn't remember a time when the A-Team fired this way without it being a trap (then again I didn't watch many episodes).  I didn't know whether conditions for a Campaign Quality were allowed, so I tried making it a feat.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:20:12 AM by SilvercatMoonpaw »

Slashes-With-Claws

  • Handler
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • I will eat your heart!
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2017, 09:15:44 AM »
Of course there's a limit to how good AP is: there isn't any use to have AP 13 if you don't often go up against opponents with that much or more.  I think the highest in the core Bestiary is DR 8?  Higher damage might be preferable.

Exactly why guns are good against unarmored enemies.  They do more damage.  But against an armored enemy the dice can lose out against the armor.

Of course that's Bows vs Guns.  Melee vs Guns might be less fair: I haven't brushed up on my FC rules recently, but I don't think there's any penalty for using ranged weapons at melee range. 

A common practice is to use the Concentration Rules on Page 80.  When someone is being hit with a sword they are going to be distracted from their shooting.

Armor's one way, but I might need to come up with some unarmored equivalent (I like unarmored anime speed-warriors) or just figure out which feats and stuff that pump up Defense.

High defense is quite a viable strategy.  My character, Sheskar, is extremely hard to hit and in the right circumstances can get his Defense over 40:
Base 10
Saurian +1
Level 18 Burglar +15
Dex +4
Charm +6
Guard +1
Blur Magic Item +4, sort of (Actually a -4 to enemy Attack, but we treat it as a +4 to Defense to save the GM some math)
Mobility +2 After Moving
AD Boost +2
Total: 45


Also:
A-Team Firing
Type: Terrain
Just because you want to take them alive doesn't mean you need to leave the scenery standing.
Prerequisites: Black Powder forte, Cha 13+
Benefit: If you succeed at an Ambush check you may choose to have all Black Powder damage done by you and your allies convert to Stress damage without suffer the -4 attack penalty.  This damage still counts as lethal damage for the purposes of destroying objects.  You cannot choose to convert the damage of only some of your allies: you must choose all or none.

Heh, that might work with some rewording.


Slashes-With-Claws

  • Handler
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • I will eat your heart!
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #96 on: August 07, 2017, 09:23:10 AM »
Terrain Feats
A-Team Firing
Just because you want to take them alive doesn't mean you need to leave the scenery standing.
Prerequisites: Black Powder forte
Benefit: You may convert Black Powder Damage to Stress without suffering the -4 Attack Penalty.  Also, on a successful Ambush you may choose to convert all Ranged damage done by you and your allies during the Surprise Round to Stress without Attack Penalty (Though they may still damage objects and scenery as normal).

SilvercatMoonpaw

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 2024
  • May Contain Nuts
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #97 on: August 07, 2017, 09:59:02 AM »
A common practice is to use the Concentration Rules on Page 80.  When someone is being hit with a sword they are going to be distracted from their shooting.
Yup, that's probably good.

Prerequisites: Black Powder forte
I kind of still wish "Cha 13+" was still a Prereq, but that's more a style issue than me complaining.  ;D I mean it kind of suggests "You have to seem this badass to pull this off."

Slashes-With-Claws

  • Handler
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • I will eat your heart!
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #98 on: September 02, 2017, 09:58:15 AM »
NPC Qualities!

NPC Qualities
Alternate Form I (+3 XP): Unlike a shapeshifter which may assume a wide variety of forms, this NPC has a single predefined alternate form.  The alternate form's Size is within 2 categories (e.g. Tiny to Huge if the shapeshifter is Medium). The alternate form's XP may exceed this form's; players are awarded XP for defeating an NPC with this quality based on the highest XP value form encountered during the current Scene. The NPC's alternate form always retains this quality with this form as the alternate; nothing else need be retained.  With 1 minute, the NPC can assume the alternate form.  A True Seeing spell does not reveal the NPC's alternate form in either form.  The NPC remains in their current form when killed.

Alternate Form II (+6 XP): Like Alternate Form I, but the time required is reduced to 2 Full Actions.

Alternate Form III (+8 XP): Like Alternate Form I, but the time required is reduced to 1 Full Action.  The NPC may only change forms once per Round.

Alternate Form IV (+9 XP): Like Alternate Form I, but the time required is reduced to 1 Half Action.  The NPC may only change forms once per Round.

Alternate Form V (+12 XP): Like Alternate Form I, but the time required is reduced to 1 Free Action.  The NPC may only change forms once per Round.

Damage Resistance (+1 XP per 2 points per damage type): The NPC gains 2 Damage Resistance from a single type or from a single source (such as a weapon category, NPC Type, etc.).

Inferior Fortitude (-1 XP per grade): The NPC suffers a -3 penalty with Fortitude saves.

Inferior Reflexes (-1 XP per grade): The NPC suffers a -3 penalty with Reflex saves.

Inferior Willpower (-1 XP per grade): The NPC suffers a -3 penalty with Will saves.

Rookie (-2 XP per grade): The NPC's Threat Level decreases by 1 per grade (minimum Threat Level 1).

Spell Immunity (XP equal to half the spell's level, rounding up, min 1): The NPC is immune to a single spell.  If this spell is graded then it applies to all grades below the chosen grade, but higher grades bypass the immunity. 

Example: The NPC is immune to Cause Wounds III, a Level 3 spell, for an XP value of 2.  This also makes them immune to Cause Wounds I and Cause Wounds II.  However, Cause Wounds IV ignores this immunity.

Spell Resistance (+1 XP per Spell): The NPC receives a +5 bonus to saves against a single spell.  If this spell is graded then it applies to all grades of that spell.

Spell Weakness (-1 XP per Spell): The NPC suffers a -5 penalty to saves against a single spell.  If this spell is graded then it applies to all grades of that spell.

Superior Fortitude (+1 XP per grade): The NPC gains a +3 bonus with Fortitude saves.

Superior Reflexes (+1 XP per grade): The NPC gains a +3 bonus with Reflex saves.

Superior Willpower (+1 XP per grade): The NPC gains a +3 bonus with Will saves.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 09:29:28 AM by Slashes-With-Claws »

Slashes-With-Claws

  • Handler
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • I will eat your heart!
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #99 on: September 05, 2017, 05:24:23 AM »
Want two Tricks on a Spell?  Now you can!  But beware the dangers.

Spellcasting Feats
Spell Conversion Mastery
The most powerful of arcane forces bend to your mighty will.
Benefit: You may add two tricks to each spell you cast.  However, when you do, your Error Range increases by 3 and a Critical Failure will result in a roll on the Wild Magic Critical Failure Table, even if Wild Magic is not normally in use.  When two Tricks modify a spell's casting time, the longer applies.  Also you may not apply opposing effects to the same spell (eg: Confine Area and Expand Area).
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 05:26:44 AM by Slashes-With-Claws »

TKDB

  • Handler
  • *****
  • Posts: 821
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #100 on: September 05, 2017, 09:22:02 AM »
Liking a lot of those NPC qualities, especially the Alternate Form line! I've always found it a little restricting that Shapeshifter can't give equal XP value to the two forms without also giving fully flexible transformation into any number of forms. Seems like you've struck a good balance on the XP values compared to Shapeshifter too!

Damage Resistance (+2 XP per point per damage type): The NPC gains 1 Damage Resistance from a single type or from a single source (such as a weapon category, NPC Type, etc.).
The payoff for XP cost seems a bit low to me, especially given comparable options already present. Damage Defiance is a mere 2 XP per damage type/source, and DR is much more sweeping (albeit also somewhat limited, in being susceptible to AP and useless against certain damage types) only 1 XP more per point (and some have suggested it ought to be 2 XP, making the Soldier's Fortunes of War class ability 3 XP for NPCs instead). 2 XP for 3 Resistance would be more equitable, or maybe even 1 XP for 2 Resistance.


Spell Conversion Mastery
The most powerful of arcane forces bend to your mighty will.
Benefit: You may add two tricks to each spell you cast.  However, when you do, your Error Range increases by 3 and a Critical Failure will result in a roll on the Wild Magic Critical Failure Table, even if Wild Magic is not normally in use.  When two Tricks modify a spell's casting time, the longer applies.  Also you may not apply opposing effects to the same spell (eg: Confine Area and Expand Area).
Personally, I've always felt that this sort of thing feels more like something that belongs in an Expert or Master class. Consider that the rough equivalent, Master's Touch, is a class ability that goes in a slot with power level way higher than what a feat can do. I've actually been thinking a lot lately about putting together such a class.

Slashes-With-Claws

  • Handler
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • I will eat your heart!
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #101 on: September 05, 2017, 09:28:58 AM »
Liking a lot of those NPC qualities, especially the Alternate Form line! I've always found it a little restricting that Shapeshifter can't give equal XP value to the two forms without also giving fully flexible transformation into any number of forms. Seems like you've struck a good balance on the XP values compared to Shapeshifter too!

Thanks, glad you like it!

Damage Resistance (+2 XP per point per damage type): The NPC gains 1 Damage Resistance from a single type or from a single source (such as a weapon category, NPC Type, etc.).
The payoff for XP cost seems a bit low to me, especially given comparable options already present. Damage Defiance is a mere 2 XP per damage type/source, and DR is much more sweeping (albeit also somewhat limited, in being susceptible to AP and useless against certain damage types) only 1 XP more per point (and some have suggested it ought to be 2 XP, making the Soldier's Fortunes of War class ability 3 XP for NPCs instead). 2 XP for 3 Resistance would be more equitable, or maybe even 1 XP for 2 Resistance.

Yeah, I was not sure how to balance this one.  1 XP for 2 is probably more reasonable.  Will change it.

Spell Conversion Mastery
The most powerful of arcane forces bend to your mighty will.
Benefit: You may add two tricks to each spell you cast.  However, when you do, your Error Range increases by 3 and a Critical Failure will result in a roll on the Wild Magic Critical Failure Table, even if Wild Magic is not normally in use.  When two Tricks modify a spell's casting time, the longer applies.  Also you may not apply opposing effects to the same spell (eg: Confine Area and Expand Area).
Personally, I've always felt that this sort of thing feels more like something that belongs in an Expert or Master class. Consider that the rough equivalent, Master's Touch, is a class ability that goes in a slot with power level way higher than what a feat can do. I've actually been thinking a lot lately about putting together such a class.
[/quote]

Yeah, a Master Class would probably be better.  Maybe as the Game Breaker.

SilvercatMoonpaw

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 2024
  • May Contain Nuts
    • View Profile
Re: [WIP] Fantasy Craft: Bronze and Steel
« Reply #102 on: September 05, 2017, 09:37:34 AM »
I think this thread needs an Index: it's annoying to have to go through all the pages to find something specific.  Also maybe the first post could stand to be broken up into Index entries.