Dragon Age: Origins

[Vnonymous]

The miracles quality should most definitely not be in the game. The maker may not necessarily exist in Dragon Age - that's still a matter for debate, and the Dalish would probably castigate you for saying that he existed.

You'd also probably have to rework the spells a lot - people don't fail to cast spells in Dragon Age, with the only exception being hit in the middle of casting long spells. That stuff is insanely dependable - like clockwork.

Also, blood magic is really hard to discover. I played through the game, and nobody actually noticed that I was a blood mage, even when I started mind-controlling people. Not the Templar, not the Mage of the Circle, no-one. The only way people can tell if you're a blood mage is if you start talking about what a great blood mage you are.  Either that or people, as much as they talk about the horrors of blood magic, don't really care about it at all.

Mages also need a way to use their reliable, dependable magic bolt attack that uses no spellpoints, an attack that never misses or criticals except for something like cover. Fireball needs to knock people down with concussive force, the various spells need to be converted.

[Sletchman]

The miracles quality should most definitely not be in the game. The maker may not necessarily exist in Dragon Age - that's still a matter for debate, and the Dalish would probably castigate you for saying that he existed.

Don't look at miracles as "god doing stuff for you" look at it as pure mechanics, a tool that does something.  Flavour is something the guy running the game creates, not the rules.

You'd also probably have to rework the spells a lot - people don't fail to cast spells in Dragon Age, with the only exception being hit in the middle of casting long spells. That stuff is insanely dependable - like clockwork.

You couldn't make them auto-succeed, that would completely destroy game balance.  In fantasycraft I've yet to see a mage in games I've run / played in that doesn't succeed the vast majority of their attemps.

Also, blood magic is really hard to discover. I played through the game, and nobody actually noticed that I was a blood mage, even when I started mind-controlling people. Not the Templar, not the Mage of the Circle, no-one. The only way people can tell if you're a blood mage is if you start talking about what a great blood mage you are.  Either that or people, as much as they talk about the horrors of blood magic, don't really care about it at all.

Thats a coding issue.  NPC's use bloodmagic in cutscenes and everyone notices it.  You stab yourself in the hand and sling a pool of blood in a cone, people should notice it.  I was personally extremely disappointed no one noticed my use of blood magic, not even my NPC's [one of which was trained to fight it].

Mages also need a way to use their reliable, dependable magic bolt attack that uses no spellpoints, an attack that never misses or criticals except for something like cover. Fireball needs to knock people down with concussive force, the various spells need to be converted.

Thats easier, but the never miss factor won't work in fantasycraft, its too good.  You could make fairly simple, just cludge together a ranged weapon that does some minor damage and doesn't need ammo.  Or you could just say they are using the damaging cantrips that they can use at will, for free as is.  I personally lean towards the second one.

[Antilles]

Honestly, I'd say Dragon Age mages use a modified version of paths, seeing as there are fairly few spells (compared to all the d20 spells at least) and most of them are fairly good (not to say overpowered, cone of cold anyone?), and start with just a couple and get just one per level. I dunno, path spells that cost Spell Points but otherwise works like normal path spells? And yeah, the mage auto-attack is easiest done with a 0-level attack spell.

[Vnonymous]

You couldn't make them auto-succeed, that would completely destroy game balance.  In fantasycraft I've yet to see a mage in games I've run / played in that doesn't succeed the vast majority of their attemps.

That wouldn't destabilise the game at all. Mages in dragon age are balanced by their spell point consumption and their inability to suffer melee hits very well.
Although really, mages aren't that balanced in dragon age either, especially if you grab arcane warrior...
There is still a reason that they didn't have spells randomly fail in Dragon Age. Magic isn't some crazy hocus pocus wild magic thing, it is solid, dependable and repeatable. If someone knows how to cast shock, they can cast shock whenever they want, if they have enough mana.

Thats a coding issue.  NPC's use bloodmagic in cutscenes and everyone notices it.  You stab yourself in the hand and sling a pool of blood in a cone, people should notice it.  I was personally extremely disappointed no one noticed my use of blood magic, not even my NPC's [one of which was trained to fight it].

That's how the game works. You are literally spraying blood everywhere when you activate blood magic, and when you make people's blood boil or then use their blood to control them, it is blatantly obvious what you're doing. People, it seems, are just hypocrites in the Dragon Age world, which makes a lot more sense than selective blindness or lazy coding (that's something they would have wanted to fix pretty quickly).

Either that or Grey Wardens get special dispensation.

Thats easier, but the never miss factor won't work in fantasycraft, its too good.  You could make fairly simple, just cludge together a ranged weapon that does some minor damage and doesn't need ammo.  Or you could just say they are using the damaging cantrips that they can use at will, for free as is.  I personally lean towards the second one.

The never miss factor isn't too good at all. Mages using their poot poot attack aren't going to be outdamaging anybody soon, and they're useful for having other people drag monsters around and wear them down. Being able to hit people reliably means jacksquat, especially when cover can interfere, you do the lowest damage out of anybody, no chance to critical, use an easily resistable type of damage and aren't doing something that's really helpful.

[Sletchman]

Try running fantasycraft with every spell automatically succeeding if the caster has adequate mana, and give all mages an auto-hit weapon that never fails if it has line of sight, has the damage of a crossbow, and ignores armour [with ~AP30 on staves they effectively ignore armour in game].  Then try to tell me that its not going to be unbalanced.  I'd wager unless your players are massively sword-happy you'll have a group of spellcasters.

I know how a PC bloodmage is in the game world, but:

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Play the Mage Origin, people recognise Jowan for what he is the moment he uses blood magic, and mobilise the templars to kill him, yes they fail, but they try.  He is instantly and perminantly condemned.

People also recognise blood magic that appears in other parts of the story, and usually the caster suffers for it at the hands of the authorities.  That the PC doesn't get treated the way that everyone else does is either due to the way the game was programmed [it doesn't have the ability for global npc's to recognise what the PC is doing and interact in previously unnecessary ways] or its the developers letting you use your speciality without having to fight against half of Fereldan.

If they programmed it to the fluff, by taking that speciality you'd lose half your companions [at least 2 would try to outright kill you], and over half your potential allies against the blight, which while being more interesting, would be an insane ammount of code for one specific class / spec combo [with the other 11 not needing it].

It's not hypocrisy, its a programming flaw / descision.

But FantasyCraft is all about your game, your way.  I recommend trying things the way you envision them, and then see what does and does not work.  I just speak from my own experiance.

[Vnonymous]

Try running fantasycraft with every spell automatically succeeding if the caster has adequate mana, and give all mages an auto-hit weapon that never fails if it has line of sight, has the damage of a crossbow, and ignores armour [with ~AP30 on staves they effectively ignore armour in game].  Then try to tell me that its not going to be unbalanced.  I'd wager unless your players are massively sword-happy you'll have a group of spellcasters.

"Fighters" are obviously going to be massively improved as well, if only through the addition of specialisations. A fighter may miss against some foes, but his attacks and criticals are going to make the mage look like a wimp, as will his tricks/special abilities. While he isn't going to hit every time, his average damage is going to be much higher than the Mage using his pathetic pea-shooter.

I know how a PC bloodmage is in the game world, but:

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Play the Mage Origin, people recognise Jowan for what he is the moment he uses blood magic, and mobilise the templars to kill him, yes they fail, but they try.  He is instantly and perminantly condemned.

Telling someone who has played a pc bloodmage to play through the mage origin is very, very redundant. It is actually the only origin available for mages.

People also recognise blood magic that appears in other parts of the story, and usually the caster suffers for it at the hands of the authorities.  That the PC doesn't get treated the way that everyone else does is either due to the way the game was programmed [it doesn't have the ability for global npc's to recognise what the PC is doing and interact in previously unnecessary ways] or its the developers letting you use your speciality without having to fight against half of Ferelden.

If they programmed it to the fluff, by taking that speciality you'd lose half your companions [at least 2 would try to outright kill you], and over half your potential allies against the blight, which while being more interesting, would be an insane ammount of code for one specific class / spec combo [with the other 11 not needing it].

It's not hypocrisy, its a programming flaw / descision.

The rules of a game and the fluff of it are pretty much the same thing, or at least should be. It is blatantly obvious that nobody cares about blood magic, as long as it isn't being used by a failed chantry mage.

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An entire contingent of blood mages are working in the city with the full blessing of the government. The chantry doesn't particularly care about them, nor does ...anyone at all, really, except for the people who are being taken by them as slaves, and they don't particularly care about the blood magic part.

. Remember, not everything in Ferelden is exactly what it says on the tin. A lot of the templars are bad people, and you can find evil-doers in the Chantry as well.

Furthermore, Bioware have spent an incredible, incredible amount of time working on Dragon Age. To say that they just ignored the entire roleplaying aspect of magic is a pretty big insult to them(which I am not sure is justified).

[spinningdice]

Am I alone in seeing all this big build up in magic being dangerous? Sounds like there's a chance of failure (with a hell of a crit fail options), even if the PCs are supposed to be better than most of the population & not have a rules-based failure chance.

[Krensky]

I'd leave the failure chance in.

Wynn espressly says magis is hard and dangerous.

[Antilles]

Either that or Grey Wardens get special dispensation.

Actually, they kind of do. Remember, their motto may as well be 'by any means necessary.' Even though Duncan doesn't outright say blood magic is ok, he does say blood magic is very powerful, and with his later statements about sacrifices and doing whatever it takes to defeat the blight I'd say he would be ok with it.

[Sletchman]

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They weren't blood mages, they were Tevinter.

[Krensky]

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They weren't blood mages, they were Tevinter.

Like there's a difference.

[Vnonymous]

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If the morality of an act is based upon the nationality of who commits it you have just created some really awkward conclusions. Said mage also actually uses blood sacrifice on people, making them explode in showers of blood, and offers to use the blood of the elven slaves to strengthen you. That's blood magic.

I'd leave the failure chance in.

Wynn espressly says magis is hard and dangerous.

Am I alone in seeing all this big build up in magic being dangerous? Sounds like there's a chance of failure (with a hell of a crit fail options), even if the PCs are supposed to be better than most of the population & not have a rules-based failure chance.

Magic is dangerous because it opens you to the fade and allows demons to possess you. Those are the drawbacks that mages have to deal with. Their magic is solid, reliable and dependable - having a spell interrupted doesn't even do anything special, and I can't remember whether or not it even drains your mana. Magic just always works in Ferelden, unless a long-cast time gets interfered with, at which point it just disappears. There are no dramatic consequences for failing your spells except that you draw demons to you. Stuffing up magic really doesn't do anything at the point you can cast spells.

Working with raw lyrium is dangerous, but not incredibly so.

[Nepenthe]

Of course, there's little point in worrying about this now - after all, they could completely change the backbone of the system for DAO 2, like they are going to do with the Mass Effect weapons. 

[JymB]

Been seeing a lot of crunch, if anyone has been able to get a hold of the collector's edition of the book, be prepared to drink from the fire hose. There is a ton of setting information presented as a campaign setting. It's great. I highly suggest that everyone looking to use it as a setting for the FC games find it, fills in a lot of gaps it would take hours to learn via playing the game.

[Nepenthe]

Been seeing a lot of crunch, if anyone has been able to get a hold of the collector's edition of the book, be prepared to drink from the fire hose. There is a ton of setting information presented as a campaign setting. It's great. I highly suggest that everyone looking to use it as a setting for the FC games find it, fills in a lot of gaps it would take hours to learn via playing the game.

Are you talking about the Prima guide, the RPG or one of the novels? I'm assuming the Prima guide, I decided to go ahead and order it just for kicks, nice to hear that it might be useful, too.

Actually, I think the spellcasting fundamentals are sound. The mage origin shows some novice casters fail at their spells. I think it's fair to assume that the Warden, Morrigan and Wynne are just good enough to never fail.

The Templar abilities, and maybe some of the other specs like Champion, might be represented quite well by paths... I'll have to give this some thought - looks like I might've found a setting I can really use FC for without forcing it...