Recurring Villains and the Threat Level system

[Viperion]

(Apologies for the somewhat vague subject, it's late and I'm runnin' low on coffee )

I have a question about the scaling nature of the NPC system. Let's say (by way of example) that the party's Big Bad Guy is going to be some variation of a Fallen Angel of the Avenging type. An Avenging Angel has an XP value of 177 which according to the descriptions on p244 is an "Extreme Threat" - also described as "The NPC(s) are party killers".

The party runs into their major adversary fairly early on, and wisely flee the scene. Several adventures (and levels) later, they run into the Angel again.... only it's XP is still 177, and it could still be described as a party killer. (The problem is even more pronounced for something like a Dragon, the least of whom has an XP value of 184, and goes up to 243(!!!!))

How is a party supposed to overcome these threats? I guess I'm missing something but I don't know what it could be...

Viperion

[drnuncheon]

Well, several levels later they will have more resources to draw upon due to their higher level (favors/prizes/whatever they have spent their reputation on, plus class abilities) as well as more information about the opponent and its tactics (from past meetings).  So while the angel's bonuses will rank up along with the party, the balance will still slowly shift in the favor of the heroes.

If you want to make the difference more dramatic, then all you have to do is adjust the threat level of the NPC relative to the party.  The first time they meet him at level 5 he really is a party killer at TL 7.  A few levels later the party is level 8 and you present him as TL 9.  He escapes and the party goes on to level 11, while the opponent only goes up to TL 10

You could even tie PC actions into this, if the guy really is a big bad - maybe if they research him they can learn his tricks or find a portion of his true name (hampering him and effectively lowering his threat level).

In any case, I don't think the "party killer" label means "certain TPK" - it means that it will be a tough fight requiring every bit of advantage the PCs can muster.  They'll need to fight smart and pull out all the stops, and even so some of them may die.  It'll be TPK if they go in unprepared or half-cocked, though…

[Crafty_Pat]

What he said.

[Daedalus]

You also have the "Non-scaling NPCs" Campaign quality(p. 325) to work with if this aspect of the system makes you uncomfortable.  One of my players is of the idea that it should apply some of the time but not always. (i.e. BBEG scales, common natural threats shouldn't)  This consistency doesn't shake my suspension of disbelief too much, especially since the PC's will get more powerful as well.

You could also give them quests to remove some of his NPC qualities, like a pre-boss softening quest for the final confrontation with the big bad, taking away one (or more) of his most powerful abilities to make him more manageable.  If this character is an angel, he may lose the graces of his empowering deity if he is corrupt and his actions are "brought to light."

[MugMug]

Plus, not all the NPC's powers scale with threat level. Qualities are typically static, and form a pretty hefty chunk of the XP value for high-XP NPCs. A 150XP NPC will be inherently easier to defeat at 20th level than at 1st, even setting aside the broader array of resources available to higher level PCs.

Walter