Professional Colleges of Magic

[MilitiaJim]

The Grump brought up a good point in another thread:  What about dividing up spell lists for the groups who use the spells, not in the classic association fashion?  Rather than selecting your spells from the school of abjuration, select them from the list of spells taught at the naval academy, the engineers guild, the engineering university, or detectives.

How would y'all spread the spells to serve the needs of graduates of the above types of schools?

[Desertpuma]

There is another thought too. Once all the Spellbound classes come out, you could easily say there are no Mages only the classes from each school are available.

[MilitiaJim]

But what of professionals who would need spells of various schools?  A naval officer would seem to be one who could benefit a great deal from different set of schools than a channeler.  Would he get a whole new class?

[Sletchman]

I like the idea of spells by profession.  Generally my group tries to keep a tight theme on spell lists, for styles sake.  My current character is a Saurian Priest [with 2 steps on the path of magic].  I have mostly weather and nature theme spells, and my other path is wilderness [we got a free step on one path from a campaign quality].  My only attack spell is call lightning, which I can't cast yet, but I've kept away from fireballs and scorching rays and the like.

The game is sea fleet based, so some professional sailor/mages have weather and wind spells, combined with mending spells and summons [scouts and messengers], as well as whispering winds.  While a sailor might like the idea of shooting flames from his fingers, why would his sponsors pay for it?

Depends on how ubiquitous magic is, as say a desert bound caravan would like someone who can reliably cast endure elements, as would mountain explorers.  Create water and goodberry for anyone who might need emergency food / clean water. 

I think training should reflect need and availability, and expense of training.

[MilitiaJim]

I think training should reflect need and availability, and expense of training.

Detectives would need some scrying and truth determination spells.  Sailors would want wind modification, fire suppression, and better food.  Soldiers would want food and to start fires.

Actually, a sort of "reverse fireball" would be very valuable, potentially ship saving, in an age of wooden ships and gunpowder.

[Krensky]

You could probably allow the specialists and generalist classes, but have them choose schools from a list specific to their educational institution or curriculum.

[Morgenstern]

Doesn't the Mage's ability to pick his own spell list effectively cover this? Just have a list of spells that are approriate to to each profession (and which can have overlap) and have players uses one of those lists as the template for their choices. Unless you want to strictly prohibit 'electives and interestest' amongst player spellcasters, you're good to go. NPCs can be more rigorously bound to using one of these prefered spell lists.

The other way to encourage choices with a positive reward would be to have a list of spells (I favor one per spell level from 1-9, easy to replicate and familiar from D&D sources)) and have a feat give you that list of spells as known spells. Then just do up a list for each profession.

[MilitiaJim]

The other way to encourage choices with a positive reward would be to have a list of spells (I favor one per spell level from 1-9, easy to replicate and familiar from D&D sources)) and have a feat give you that list of spells as known spells. Then just do up a list for each profession.

Am likink of think idea.  I might be tempted to frontload the spell list a bit, as casters who can cast 9th level spells are rare enough that unless you plan on devoting your career to arcane power, your time is better spent on other pursuits.

What would you include in, for example, a naval officer's spellbook versus an army officer's spellbook?

[Gentry]

A naval officer probably doesn't need expeditious retreat, and an army officer probably doesn't need water walk. Both could benefit quite a bit from whispers and control weather. Naval officers would probably get better use out of summoned elementals, while army officers might find the called-from-beyond brawlers handier.

[TheAuldGrump]

In terms of military wizardry, I think it likely that wizards would be commissioned officers - and as a result it is also likely that they would come from the moneyed classes, rather than rising up though the ranks. A model that is still largely true today, but was almost mandatory up to and through WWI, when a commission could still be bought.

In the Navy the officers still had to prove their worth, but in the army the quality of officers was often a subject of mockery. (This is well shown in the Horatio Hornblower series.) Whether this would hold true for Army wizards.... But I can see a feat or chain being available and/or required in regards to Naval wizards at the least.

There were times when the boughten commissions were an advantage, as an officer was allowed to equip the squad out of his own purse. As one of the many faults in the movie The Patriot, in the real world Green's Dragoons did not wear red coats as shown, but green - as Green bought and paid for the uniforms out of his own purse. In the American Civil War Col. Hiram Berdan supplied his two regiments of snipers with rifles purchased out of his own funds - though in his case he needed special dispensation from President Lincoln.

The Auld Grump, who woke up, and discovered that he had been drooling into his keyboard not all that long ago....

[MilitiaJim]

There were also the various mercenary companies.  Notably of Italy and Switzerland, but also Scotland.  There are several commanders who did move up through the ranks, as well as noble commanders, so a list wouldn't be too crazy, but I do think it would be based on the naval list.

[DefenderofFuture]

While a sailor might like the idea of shooting flames from his fingers, why would his sponsors pay for it?

Same reason people paid for flaming weapons against vessels with wooden hulls and canvas sails?   

In general, I like the idea this thread is proposing, but I feel it would be a lot simpler for a mage to simply know spells that fit the character idea the player is looking for.  At most I think incorporating this into specialty system would work best, or perhaps as optional rules in a future supplement.  Players will self-regulate for the most part. 

[Sletchman]

While a sailor might like the idea of shooting flames from his fingers, why would his sponsors pay for it?

Same reason people paid for flaming weapons against vessels with wooden hulls and canvas sails?   

I didn't really think that one through honestly.

I don't know if you guys ever played forgotten realms, but there was some "Initiate of X" feats [for various gods / organisations], that gave you a dozen spells or so that suited that group.  It'd start of better then Spell Library, but with less flexibility, and end up giving you less spells at high levels, but a tighter theme.  You could also chuck in a fringe benefit.

Ex:

Nautical Spellslinger
Prereqs: Ride Focus [Water Vehicles], Spellcasting 4+ Ranks
Benefits: When taking basic skill mastery you gain access to a new pair: Mariner (Ride and Notice), also add the following to your known spells.
0 - Water Walking
1 - Goodberry
...and so on, [I'm open to suggestions here].

[Morgenstern]

I'll point at my new post on astral magic as a fairly compact system that might meet your setting needs .