[FantasyCraft] New guns and Gun Upgrades. Help appreciated.

[Sletchman]

Here's some new guns and upgrades I've come up with, supportive feats to follow, after I sleep.  Also garrotte and brass knuckles.  Please critic and offer improvements.  I tried to keep in the style of MasterCraft, and keep the guns nice and generic.  Repeater could be a lever or bolt action, but refers to the sorta guns found just after the US civil war.

Name	Damage	Threat	Range	Qualities	Sz/Hand	Const	Comp	Weight	Era	Cost
Revolver, Fixed Cylinder	3d6 Lethal	18-20	40ft x 4	Ammo 6, Load 10	T/1h	Solid 3	30M	3lb	Industrial	180s
Revolver, Top-Break	3d4 Lethal	18-20	30ft x 3	Ammo 6, Load 4	T/1h	Solid 2	30M	2lb	Industrial	140s
Revolver, Pocket	2d4 Lethal	18-20	10ft x 3	Ammo 5, Load 4, Inaccurate	F/1h	Solid 2	30M	1.3lb	Industrial	150s
Long Rifle, Repeating	3d6 Lethal	18-20	75ft x 6	Ammo 15, Load 6	M/2h	Solid 3	35M	10lb	Industrial	300s
Rifle, Repeating	3d6 Lethal	18-20	50ft x 6	Ammo 15, Load 6, Spike	S/2h	Solid 3	30M	7lb	Industrial	250s
Carbine, Repeating	3d6 Lethal	18-20	30ft x 6	Ammo 7, Cavalry, Load 3	S/2h	Solid 3	30M	6lb	Industrial	250s
Shotgun, Break Action	4d4 Lethal	19-20	30ft x 3	Imprecise, Load 1, Spread	S/2h	Solid 3	20M	7lb	Industrial	150s
Shotgun, Repeating	4d4 Lethal	19-20	30ft x 3	Ammo 5, Imprecise, Load 2, Spread	S/2h	Solid 3	30M	8lb	Industrial	250s
Brass Knuckles	+2	-	-	Grip, Unarmed	F/1h	Hard 1	10D	1lb	Reason	10s
Additional Barrel	-	-	-	Ammo +1, Load +50%	-	-	+5	+25%	Industrial	+25%
Sawn-Off	-	-	-50%	Inaccurate	F/2h	-	-	-40%	Industrial	+10%

Upgrades / Qualities
Ammo:  You may take this number of attacks when the weapon is fully loaded.
Imprecise:  You may not use the Called Shot trick with this weapon, or use any feat or ability that negates an enemies cover.
Unarmed:  The weapon enhances users unarmed attacks, and uses unarmed proficiency.  The wielder may use unarmed tricks with the weapon.
Additional Barrel(s):  The weapon has an additional barrel, allowing it to be fired multiple times; this may only be applied to a single shot firearm, and may be applied up to 3 times.
Sawn-Off:  The barrel length of the weapon is reduced, making it lighter and more concealable, but with less range and accuracy.

[OverNinja]

Some quick thoughts on them.

Revolver, Pocket - add Inaccurate (due to short barrel, short grip, small frame)

Shotgun, Break-Action - add Spread, add Imprecise
Shotgun, Repeating - add Spread, add Imprecise

Imprecise is on page 258 in SC. Essential for shotguns.

Rifle reload times are quite fast, making them 6 and 3 would not be too harsh.

[Sletchman]

Some quick thoughts on them.

Revolver, Pocket - add Inaccurate (due to short barrel, short grip, small frame)

Shotgun, Break-Action - add Spread, add Imprecise
Shotgun, Repeating - add Spread, add Imprecise

Imprecise is on page 258 in SC. Essential for shotguns.

Rifle reload times are quite fast, making them 6 and 3 would not be too harsh.

The Shotguns both already have spread, but Imprecise is a good suggestion.  I can't find any mention in FC about penalties for firing into melee, so I might have to incorporate it in the quality itself.  Unless you can find it?  Good catch on the Pocket Revolver, I left it out because the one in FC doesn't possess it, it just has an abysmal range.  Ironically the rifle load times came from your suggestion in my other thread, but you're right, the reload times are quite fast [I was unsure about them initially].  6 and 3 doesn't seem too harsh, especially with what I've got in mind for feats.

I just realised you don't really need a shooting into melee for a spread weapon, as even friendlies have to take reflex saves or cop damage when in melee.  Which leaves the inability to negate cover, so perhaps something like:

Imprecise: You may not use the Called Shot trick with this weapon, or use any feat or ability that negates an enemies cover.

[Sletchman]

I just noticed that Garrotte is listed in the gear section, I missed it because its not in the weapons chart.  My bad.  I removed it from my original post.

[Krensky]

Damage is way high.

Look at the guns in SC2.0 and the Shooter's guides.

Also, are thes cartrige or cap and ball guns?

Time for cartridges is long, look to SC2.o and the Shooter's Guides. Time for cap and ball is way low. Load 7 per chamber is a good place to start.

[Sletchman]

Damage is way high.

Look at the guns in SC2.0 and the Shooter's guides.

I thought that too to be honest, I was just basing it on values existing in FantasyCraft for firearms.  Plus its my understanding that a Winchester 1873, or a Colt Single-Action Army [which I based the guns on] do more damage then a blackpowder weapon, not less [so I didnt want to lower the damage from the black powder in the book].  I'll take another look at it after I get home from my game tonight.  Damage codes do seem diferent between SC and FC thou.

Also, are thes cartrige or cap and ball guns?

Time for cartridges is long, look to SC2.o and the Shooter's Guides. Time for cap and ball is way low. Load 7 per chamber is a good place to start.

Cartridge I think?  I based the rifles on the Winchester and Henry rifles, and the pistols on the Colt SAA, S&W No. 3, and a generic snub nose, like a .22, or other small cal.  Shotguns are loosely based on either break action singles and double-barrels of the late 1800's, and lever actions.

From what I understand with rifles, you can load a round a second without specialised training, and that drops with specialised training [the feats I'm working on, and the Quick Draw feat] which drop it to 15 rounds in 6 seconds, or 7 rounds in 3, which I was led to believe is about accurate for a trained specialist.

I guesstimated for the break-top revolver, based on my understanding of how it works, and again feats will reduce this [quickdraw + revolver chain], gate loading type I was under the impression it takes 30 seconds with minimal training [just proficient], and that gets reduced by specialising, with Quick Draw alone it goes down 12 seconds [2 rounds] + 2 free actions on round 3, which is bordering on impossibly quick.

Do you have any suggestions for alternate values?  Vintage firearms aren't really my area of expertise.

[Krensky]

Damage is way high.

Look at the guns in SC2.0 and the Shooter's guides.

I thought that too to be honest, I was just basing it on values existing in FantasyCraft for firearms.  Plus its my understanding that a Winchester 1873, or a Colt Single-Action Army [which I based the guns on] do more damage then a blackpowder weapon, not less [so I didnt want to lower the damage from the black powder in the book].  I'll take another look at it after I get home from my game tonight.  Damage codes do seem diferent between SC and FC thou.

Those are black powder weapons too. They use a smaller charge then Age of Reason firearms and have smaller bullets. An 18th century flintlock pistol is typically .50 caliber. A 19th century revolver is typically .36 or .44. The later firearms advantage was in repeating fire and better rifling. Smokeless powder for small arms didn't really become practical until the 1880s, and wasn't common until the 20th century. .45 Colt was a black powder cartridge when introduced, for instance.

Also, are thes cartrige or cap and ball guns?

Time for cartridges is long, look to SC2.o and the Shooter's Guides. Time for cap and ball is way low. Load 7 per chamber is a good place to start.

Cartridge I think?  I based the rifles on the Winchester and Henry rifles, and the pistols on the Colt SAA, S&W No. 3, and a generic snub nose, like a .22, or other small cal.  Shotguns are loosely based on either break action singles and double-barrels of the late 1800's, and lever actions.

Yes, cartridge. Cap-and-ball are early 19th century. Model 1860 Army and such, where each chamber was charged separately. It was actually faster to take the gun apart and replace the cylinder then reload.

From what I understand with rifles, you can load a round a second without specialised training, and that drops with specialised training [the feats I'm working on, and the Quick Draw feat] which drop it to 15 rounds in 6 seconds, or 7 rounds in 3, which I was led to believe is about accurate for a trained specialist.

I guesstimated for the break-top revolver, based on my understanding of how it works, and again feats will reduce this [quickdraw + revolver chain], gate loading type I was under the impression it takes 30 seconds with minimal training [just proficient], and that gets reduced by specialising, with Quick Draw alone it goes down 12 seconds [2 rounds] + 2 free actions on round 3, which is bordering on impossibly quick.

Do you have any suggestions for alternate values?  Vintage firearms aren't really my area of expertise.

For cartridge, ignore reality and use the rules in SC2.0. What you loose in simulation, you make up in playability.

[Sletchman]

Those are black powder weapons too. They use a smaller charge then Age of Reason firearms and have smaller bullets. An 18th century flintlock pistol is typically .50 caliber. A 19th century revolver is typically .36 or .44. The later firearms advantage was in repeating fire and better rifling. Smokeless powder for small arms didn't really become practical until the 1880s, and wasn't common until the 20th century. .45 Colt was a black powder cartridge when introduced, for instance.

A black powder .45 colt still inflicts worse injuries then a .50 flintlock though doesn't it?  Or was I informed wrong?

For cartridge, ignore reality and use the rules in SC2.0. What you loose in simulation, you make up in playability.

Most of these guns arent in SC2.0, but irregardless it says that a weapon with single shots [as in 15S40 in ammo section] you reload 3 bullets per half action.  The long rifle's and regular rifles load only decreases by 1, and the carbine's stays the same.  The only big change is the Colt SAA clone [the fixed cylinder gate loaded revolver], which in SC has a load of 2, which people has informed me is basically impossible.

I tried to keep the damage variance similiar, but more in keeping with FC values [which don't have xdy + z, simply xdy].  Thsi is the closest I can find in SC: A .44-40 does 1d12+2 [3-14].

[Krensky]

A black powder .45 colt still inflicts worse injuries then a .50 flintlock though doesn't it?  Or was I informed wrong?

That is a question that's very hard to answer, since there was lots of variance in the bullet and the charge. The simple answer is that the .50 caliber will generally do more damage because it has more energy due to it's mass. Cap-and-ball and later cartridge revolvers superseded them, not because of damage per round, but because you could fire six times before changing guns. The other thing is that the Winchester rifles are all carbines. The 'long rifle' for the time is something like a Sharps Big 50 and the typical infantry rifle would be a Martini-Henry, neither of which are repeaters.

[Sletchman]

A black powder .45 colt still inflicts worse injuries then a .50 flintlock though doesn't it?  Or was I informed wrong?

That is a question that's very hard to answer, since there was lots of variance in the bullet and the charge. The simple answer is that the .50 caliber will generally do more damage because it has more energy due to it's mass.

I thought flintlock pistols had a muzzle velocity of around 400fps, compared to cased rounds with a muzzle velocity of around 800-900 fps, which was what caused the increased damage.  I always figured increased velocity was from better compression due to the cartidge itself.  Or at least similiar, more weight + slower = less weight + faster.

The other thing is that the Winchester rifles are all carbines. The 'long rifle' for the time is something like a Sharps Big 50 and the typical infantry rifle would be a Martini-Henry, neither of which are repeaters.

Yeah I know, and I'm actually considering ditching it for that reason [among others].  True "long rifles" don't seem to exist in late 1800's, they seemed to rely more on the improved quality of the weapons and increased velocity to get range.

[Krensky]

I thought flintlock pistols had a muzzle velocity of around 400fps, compared to cased rounds with a muzzle velocity of around 800-900 fps, which was what caused the increased damage.  I always figured increased velocity was from better compression due to the cartidge itself.  Or at least similiar, more weight + slower = less weight + faster.

While a large, slow bullet and a small fast bullet may have the same kinetic energy, terminal performance is based on how well they transfer it to the target. The big, slow, soft bullet has the advantage there. I'd probably use the damage for the .44-40 or the .45 Colt.

Yeah I know, and I'm actually considering ditching it for that reason [among others].  True "long rifles" don't seem to exist in late 1800's, they seemed to rely more on the improved quality of the weapons and increased velocity to get range.

Define "late 1800's". Part of the issue here is that guns underwent an insane amount of technological evolution during this period. The British, for instance started the century with the Land Pattern Musket (aka Brown Bess) and had just introduced the Infantry Rifle (aka, the Baker Rifle) to elite units, all using black powder. By the turn of the century, the British Army was issuing the Short-Magazine Lee-Enfield firing a smokeless powder cartridge.