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Author Topic: Fantasy Craft Talent Costs  (Read 8649 times)
Blankbeard
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« Reply #105 on: September 28, 2009, 07:29:08 AM »

Ok, first, thanks for the reply, this helped a lot.

Now on the elf, I typo’ed. I get 6.5 not 8.5. However, the difference here is that according to the Wiki, it says Fey costs +0.5, but you show Fey as a cost of 1. Is this an error in the Wiki? If so who has the ability to edit?

Anyone can edit the wiki.  The values came from either Spycraft 2.0's origin creation page or me running numbers with Morgenstern giving hints as to what some of the specific values are.  Thus they went through many revisions and it looks like Fey got left out of one revision.

Fey should be 1.  Tonight I'll post the last version of the spreadsheet I was using to figure this out.

Now for the dwarf, I guess this is an interpretational issue. I got 6.5 vs. 7 because I stacked “Banned Checks” twice for a total of -1.  Why? They are banned from 2 specific skill actions and one combat action that prevents them from taking a feat tree. Also when considering the following, I thought -0.5 too little for 3 penalties.

Banned checks always contains more than one check.  It looks like either 2 or 3.  There's probably a way to determine how common a check is and thus how many make up a .5 penalty.  Right now though it looks like a judgment call.  Dwarves and Orcs both have 3 banned checks and get .5 for their trouble.  Centaurs have Climb and Jump banned and get the same.  I think it's frequency of the check but a developer would have to say for sure.

Ex 1: In the ability "Iconic Classes” it states “If your level in any base class is higher than your level in either X or Y," specifically saying that there are 2 factors (classes in this case) applied to the species.

All of the existing Iconic class penalties incorporate two classes so having 2 iconic classes is worth a penalty of 1.  I'm not sure that it would be possible to make a balanced penalty on a per class basis.  Having more iconic classes would be less of a penalty (or maybe no real penalty) not more of one.  Also, the penalty costs aren't always linear.  Reviled -10 isn't worth twice the penalty of Reviled -5.

EX2: In the ability "Banned Checks” it states “You may not use x checks" which, according to the way the other ability is written, would indicate only 1 factor (skill maneuvers in this case) are applied to the species.

Originally x was "2 or 3" but it was changed.  Maybe we can figure out what x is. Smiley

I am not sure that a -0.5 cost is a fair price for being able to stack on as many Banned Checks as you want all under the same cost. If there is supposed to be a limit, such as 2 Skill Tricks and 1 Feat Tree, it needs to be added to the wiki description.


I'd suggest 2 common/important checks or 3 less common/less important checks.  But that's vague.  Maybe others can clear it up a bit more.

I'd also say that one should be careful about putting the same penalty on a talent twice. 
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foproy
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« Reply #106 on: September 28, 2009, 11:54:35 PM »

how would you handle scent, so far i have this"enhanced scent- Your scent range increments are equal to your Wis score x10 ft. You may always act during a surprise round. 2pts" which is a modification of another abillity, but i am not sure if i like that.
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Khaalis
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« Reply #107 on: September 29, 2009, 06:04:36 AM »

Quote
Tonight I'll post the last version of the spreadsheet I was using to figure this out.
Great. I’m really looking forward to seeing this.

Quote
Banned checks always contains more than one check.  It looks like either 2 or 3.  There's probably a way to determine how common a check is and thus how many make up a .5 penalty.  Right now though it looks like a judgment call.  Dwarves and Orcs both have 3 banned checks and get .5 for their trouble.  Centaurs have Climb and Jump banned and get the same.  I think it's frequency of the check but a developer would have to say for sure.
Ok, this makes perfect sense in this context.  I’ve added this to the wiki as a notation for clarification. We can edit it again once we know for certain how to detail what X is. As you state though, it’s likely an eyeball guesstimate based on commonality of the checks. In reality, how often does a dwarf need to make a swim check? How many people care that they can’t create a kick-boxing dwarf?



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how would you handle scent, so far i have this"enhanced scent- Your scent range increments are equal to your Wis score x10 ft. You may always act during a surprise round. 2pts" which is a modification of another abillity, but i am not sure if i like that.
Aye, this is Sharp Hearing. Personally I wouldn't increase sent above WISx5 ft. I'm also not keen on scent granting "act during a surprise round" as it isn't as reliable as Hearing (due to being up or down wind, etc.).   How about this?

Enhanced Scent: Your scent range increments are equal to your Wisdom score x5 and you gain a +4 bonus with related Awareness and Perception checks.  {Cost 2}
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Medwyn
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« Reply #108 on: September 29, 2009, 06:18:57 AM »


Enhanced Scent: Your scent range increments are equal to your Wisdom score x5 and you gain a +4 bonus with related Awareness and Perception checks.  {Cost 2}

Improved senses are already in the book under NPC qualities pg 234

Quote from: Fantasycraft pg 234
Improved Sense (+1 XP per sense): The NPC’s visual, hearing, or scent range is doubled and he gains a +4 bonus with related Awareness and Perception checks.

So why not just use that and cost the same as the Elf's Sharp Hearing.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #109 on: October 10, 2009, 01:01:09 PM »

Am I recalling that you guys worked out a value for "can take feats as species X"?
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #110 on: October 10, 2009, 01:42:26 PM »

It doesn't cost much - its mostly a way of retroactively changing those feats to include the new race in the list of possible candidates. Consider that elf invisibly has a bulletpoint/advantage that reads "you can take feats as an elf." and it costs them nothing at all Smiley. Several species feats specifical made the cut because they are giving some options limited to humans to keep things on a mostly level playing field.

My inclination is~
1 race is a freebie. Your race is probably just approapriating the tools of the nearest analog, though it might add a few more unique to themselves.

2 is probably a .5 (such as a species that can take feats as both an ogre and a giant). At the end of the day you have some additional choices, but you don't get anything you arent' paying for in full measure. charging more than .5 just doesn't make a lot of sense. This is also the level involved where a human talent is gaining the ability to co-opt another species' feats.

3 would surprise me, but this seems like it's covering some sort of broad-based hybrid or mimic. Call it 1 design point just because it's opening the door to some whacky combos that might be abusive.

4... I've got no idea what you'd use this options for. The odds of some sort of system crash from bad interaction go way beyond my comfort level as a designer and I have most of the species feats memorized Smiley.
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foproy
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« Reply #111 on: October 14, 2009, 12:41:13 AM »

what kind of cost would you give to this

alternate form choose an alternate anthropomorphic animal form from the following list

this would replace a stat bump, and probably come with a skill boost and stat bump while in the alternate form.

the racial idea comes loosely from hanjou(sp?) from the 12 kingdoms, and will probably be social outcast in some circles of society.
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« Reply #112 on: October 18, 2009, 02:24:34 AM »

I'm working on an Origin Builder program with a friend of mine (expect results... eventually) and the question came up on the best way to deal with Attribute bonuses. Ideally, you'd be able to make any combination of attribute bonus's and penalties to your heart's desire and it'd calculate the correct point cost for it. Unfortunately, we're having trouble deconstructing the formula. It's clearly not quite linear, but other than that we need help. I read the thread before, the 'formula' seemed to be spread over several posts that only winked and nudged at each other and never set out formal rules. Help in this matter would be much appreciated.
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« Reply #113 on: October 19, 2009, 02:31:03 PM »

How much would be:

+2 specific, -2 specific, -2 specific

And how much would be:

Aquatic (with full water breathing)
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« Reply #114 on: October 19, 2009, 03:08:35 PM »

Check out the New Leaf (swamproot) feat -- it gives Aquatic II, a +10' speed bump and a new iconic class, so that's about 2.5 to 3 design points. So off the cuff I'd say 2.5 pts for the package of quality and a swim speed of 30 ft.
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« Reply #115 on: October 19, 2009, 05:00:13 PM »

2.5, since there is no need for a new iconic class.
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« Reply #116 on: October 19, 2009, 06:30:56 PM »

40 ft ground (an increase of 33% over base land speed, broadly useful above the water as well as in it) may or may not be equivalent to 30 ft swim speed (a 300% increase over base swim speed but used rather less frequently in most cases)
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