Available Now - Call to Arms: Gallant, Infernalist, and Monster Slayer

[Glacialis]

These are pure win. *bows+worships*

[Number Three]

Damn it Crafty, I have a Spycraft game to run tomorrow night.  Stop distracting me!

[Deral]

Interesting, Gallant had sounded something knight like, a counterpart to the lancer I was thinking. As for the Infernalist, it sounded to me to be screaming the warlock.

I did like D&D's 3rd edition warlock, it was just like the type of character from a SNES game of the same name (I.E, Warlock) . Who fired purple blasts of energy at people, and that was what the D&D warlock was all about.

Anyways, I hope the Infernalist is what would be used to make a D&D esque Warlock of sorts. I am curious as to what it's like, those who own it, able/willing to give an idea what they're like beyond the product description?

In the very least, I'm interested for a D&D player of mine, who's a Warlock. Having played said class in 3.5 and 4th edition (which we're currently playing, trying it out and all), being the GM, I'd want to try and see if I can bring that concept/experience back to his character, should we convert to FantasyCraft.  I otherwise have heard someone has mentioned Priest being a good class to use for a Warlock like character.

As for the Monster Hunter, these type of classes are alright generally in D&D, just hope it's not some sort of "Ranger" kind of knock off. However I'm sure I trust that FantasyCraft has it's ways to make them be dynamic and interesting otherwise.

You can mimic the playstyle of a Warlock best with a normal caster, like the Mage or Channeler, spell points are all used per scene, so you really aren't limited like a D&D caster.

Anyway, the three classes: Infernalist picks up some penalties (grades of tainted from Pg 325) for really powerful spellcasting, the flavor can be pretty much identical to the warlock, and certainly reflects the unstoppable infernal power warlocks haven't got. The Gallant is best compared to the FC Swashbuckler (for being a stylish combatant),  denies enemies tricks, and is more effective against special characters, and the Monster Hunter is a very effective combatant who is even better against enemies that have a load of innate boosts, and who gets a few cool benefits against a narrower selection of enemies. They're all pretty cool, and though they've only got three feats a piece, they're all really cool.

I definitely think Mage with carefully picked spells or Priest with the Magic path into Infernalist can create a character who feels the same (though is far more capable than) a D&D warlock, mix in Courtier, Assassin, or Burglar to taste for whichever sort of warlock he was going for (Since this one takes the Cha skills hit, even though he makes up for it with really fun Intimidate, or just pick up appropriate specialties/talents)

[Krensky]

Anyways, I hope the Infernalist is what would be used to make a D&D esque Warlock of sorts. I am curious as to what it's like, those who own it, able/willing to give an idea what they're like beyond the product description?

First, it's an expert class. Second, it's more like Green Ronin's Thaumaturge then WotC's Warlock.

As for the Slayer, it's not really similar to a Ranger. It has a few offensive abilities, but most of it's abilities provide defenses versus monster attacks.

[Mister Andersen]

There's actually a fair deal of room to play with using the tainted condition.

As written in FC, the condition gives a one-off penalty to Will saves and Charisma checks then acts essentially as a Darkside Point counter -- even though Infernalist seems predicated on the penalties increasing with each instance of the condition, the key words "per grade" are noticably absent from the write up in the campaign quality section.

Further, if you and the GC both feel that 5 steps until permanent NPCdom is a bit steep you have 2 options.

The first is that it's not permanent, with the GC retaining control until the following scene when the scripted bleed off would take the condition down to grade V. This is arguably worse (but potentially more interesting) than being forced to roll up a new character as it can force the player to deal with the consequences of actions their character committed while under demonic dominion. Actions which the character and/or player may be completely unaware.

The second is to increase the threshold of the condition -- say from V to X -- before the axe comes down. If the GC opts for this and is using the condition as the class indicates it should (stacking penalties) then the added life line is more than countered by the eventually crippling penalties inflicted by the condition.

Alternatively, those stacking -2 penalties could be replaced by an increase to the error range of Charisma checks equal to twice the grade of the condition (so tainted I has -2 to charisma checks, -2 will saves, +2 error range, tainted V is giving you 2 to charisma checks, -2 will saves, +10 error range).

[knight.errant]

Just wanted to say that I downloaded these earlier today and I am very pleased with them.

Crafty is teh win!

Gallant is not what I was expecting, but I am really happy with how it surpised me. It's a class I would love to play--its got lots of style and appropriate abilities; very well done.

The Monster Hunter also wasn't what I expected, but turned out better than I guessed it would. Especially with the new feats. If you ever wanted to make a warrior who can go toe-to-toe with dragons, this is your ticket. I love it.

[Aryxbez]

You can mimic the playstyle of a Warlock best with a normal caster, like the Mage or Channeler, spell points are all used per scene, so you really aren't limited like a D&D caster.

I definitely think Mage with carefully picked spells or Priest with the Magic path into Infernalist can create a character who feels the same (though is far more capable than) a D&D warlock, mix in Courtier, Assassin, or Burglar to taste for whichever sort of warlock he was going for (Since this one takes the Cha skills hit, even though he makes up for it with really fun Intimidate, or just pick up appropriate specialties/talents)

Ah, I've been reading a good few of threads around here,  and I found out about that, how Arcane spellcasting is Spell point based, and refreshes per scene. I also learned a brief bit about the coolness of priests in FantasyCraft as well.

I thank you for the advice, I think it'll certainly help in some form. I can see the theme of Warlock in an Infernalist, tapping into such power eventually corrupting you if overly used.

First, it's an expert class. Second, it's more like Green Ronin's Thaumaturge then WotC's Warlock.

As for the Slayer, it's not really similar to a Ranger. It has a few offensive abilities, but most of it's abilities provide defenses versus monster attacks.

Can't say I'm familiar with Green Ronin products, however I am aware that it's an Expert Class. So no worries, I actually read threads generally, just those 50+ page ones, that I might not be able to read all of it. However I suppose I was vague, so my bad, I meant that it could be used to help further complete the concept/idea of playing a Warlock character. Also I prefer these classes being a Expert Class, than a full class, as was said, how it must fulfill a more dynamic/newer concept to be a full class. So I know FantasyCraft will try to avoid the whole needless classes that 3.5 started to insert after awhile, and doing somewhat with 4th edition as well.

All the same, thank ye kindly for telling me this.

[Crafty_Pat]

Heh. Yeah. I wonder, looking at these and the classes in the main book if it was a FC design rubric to make a list of iconic character from fantasy film and literature and say "let's make sure we can do these..."

It's always on our minds, yes.

[Crafty_Pat]

Further, if you and the GC both feel that 5 steps until permanent NPCdom is a bit steep you have 2 options.

Keep in mind that the class caps out at 3 grades and you can only get more if a) you apply the corrupting magic quality, or b) you intentionally introduce the condition in some other fashion.

[Crafty_Pat]

So I know FantasyCraft will try to avoid the whole needless classes that 3.5 started

We're very careful to avoid this, actually, running every new class and character option idea through a number of paces to make sure it brings something new (and valuable to GMs and players) to the table.

[Mister Andersen]

As seen elsewhere, there are those who may find it conceptually difficult to have the tainted condition in play as a means of conferring penalties without corrupting magic being in effect: why suffer the condition if you're not going to run the risk of the ultimate sanction it implies.

[Crafty_Pat]

As seen elsewhere, there are those who may find it conceptually difficult to have the tainted condition in play as a means of conferring penalties without corrupting magic being in effect: why suffer the condition if you're not going to run the risk of the ultimate sanction it implies.

The mind boggles - it is, after all, just a couple penalties with the option for more if you want - but to each his own.

[Crafty_Alex]

There's actually a fair deal of room to play with using the tainted condition.

As written in FC, the condition gives a one-off penalty to Will saves and Charisma checks then acts essentially as a Darkside Point counter -- even though Infernalist seems predicated on the penalties increasing with each instance of the condition, the key words "per grade" are noticably absent from the write up in the campaign quality section.

That's errata. The omission of "per grade" was accidental - as with all other graded conditions, this is intended to get worse as you collect more levels.

[Mister Andersen]

Yeah, I figured that but it is a useful jumping off point for monkeying around with the concept none the less.

[Alien Rope Burn]

I really love the new feat chains. As extensive as the Fantasy Craft feat chains are, I feel like we need more and more, because each feat chain in Fantasy Craft is generally pretty specialized. Seeing some more advanced stuff that's more generalized in the Lionheart and Sword Circle chains is nice.

I rather liked the Monster Hunter as well, or the "I don't want to ever be punked in the 1st round" class. A good combination of desirable and themed abilities.

The Gallant I was more skeptical on given the existence of the Swashbuckler, but it's nice to see a Courtier-oriented class. I wish it were a little more meaty - the Worldly ability fills in a lot of levels. Maybe a bonus feat replacing two of those Worldly levels? It would certainly help the fighting side of it a bit.

The Infernalist is... well, exactly what it says on the tin. Definitely more oriented for villains, though. If it wasn't for the Will save penalty, it'd make a strong contender for the #1 "power build" of the game, but I see it as more something to cherry-pick for NPCs. The problem with it for PCs is that it turns a lot of encounters to rock-paper-scissors, moreso than any other class.

Of course, how tainted works could always be adjusted, too, especially if you want an archetype that's closer to a tempter.

Wow. Dark Gallant's No More Games ability is really good against PC/special char warrior types.

...

It actually is a bit worrisome to me. At high levels, it pretty much shuts down a lot of humanoid opposition in combat. They can't even /parry/, for crying out loud. In my own games, I might restrict this ability to standard characters only, or limit it effectiveness on special characters (once per scene, nerf a special character's trick, or the like).