Starting Post 1st Level?

[Sletchman]

That's 37s right there, not including basic trail Rations at 5s per day cost. So assume even a 2 day run, thats 47s.

Just to point out, Rations have Uses: 7, so your 5s lasts a whole week, which shaves of some of your cost.  Its not much, but its something.

[Aragathor]

That's 37s right there, not including basic trail Rations at 5s per day cost. So assume even a 2 day run, thats 47s.

Just to point out, Rations have Uses: 7, so your 5s lasts a whole week, which shaves of some of your cost.  Its not much, but its something.

This is picking on details you know?
FC does not give starting characters the same amount of cash as D&D does, period
There are two ways of dealing with this, raise the amount of cash or accept it.

[knight.errant]

You buy Renown by spending Reputation

Thanks

[Sletchman]

That's 37s right there, not including basic trail Rations at 5s per day cost. So assume even a 2 day run, thats 47s.

Just to point out, Rations have Uses: 7, so your 5s lasts a whole week, which shaves of some of your cost.  Its not much, but its something.

This is picking on details you know?
FC does not give starting characters the same amount of cash as D&D does, period
There are two ways of dealing with this, raise the amount of cash or accept it.

Sorry if it seemed like I was picking on little details but I just noticed tonight [after running the game for 3 sessions and playing for 1 session previously] while playing that its more then a one use item and figured others might have missed it too.  I agree that 1st level starting money is low, its one of the reasons I started my game at 3rd level. 300 silver for starting characters is plenty, unless they wanna be full-plate wearing gunslingers.

If you increase the starting silver by 100, it seems pretty good. So level x 100 + 100.

[Ferdinand Von Plat]

You also get your income at the start of your first adventure.

Unless you have no Panache, in which case you don't get any money. And unless you put, say, 8 points into Cha you're probably only going to have a couple of Lifestyle to split between Panache and Prudence. And which is more important, 10s per level that will get reduced by whatever your prudence i and +1 Appearance for every 2-3 or 5% more income saved (or 1s saved per 20s earned) per level of Prudence?

[Krensky]

You also get your income at the start of your first adventure.

Unless you have no Panache, in which case you don't get any money. And unless you put, say, 8 points into Cha you're probably only going to have a couple of Lifestyle to split between Panache and Prudence. And which is more important, 10s per level that will get reduced by whatever your prudence i and +1 Appearance for every 2-3 or 5% more income saved (or 1s saved per 20s earned) per level of Prudence?

Income at the start of an adventure is not effected by Prudence. Also, why on earth did you take take Cha 8? Unless your concept is to play a crass, charmless prat dropping Charisma below 10 is a bad idea. As for whether Panache or Prudence is more useful it depends on your character. If you spend all of your coin before the end of the adventure, a low Prudence isn't that big a handicap. Also, looking at my PCs in my Runelords game on the boards, my players and Alex (who made a PC but hasn't joined in yet) valued Panache over Prudence.

This is a non-issue. Buy what you really need, make use of the crude upgrade, and get better stuff with your first bit of loot. This isn't D&D. There are no real dump stats for any character and money is not as important.

[Gentry]

This isn't D&D. There are no real dump stats for any character and money is not as important.

I'll echo that. The more I dig into the system, the more I feel like there's no corner you can cut that's not going to create an actual penalty to balance the strength you seek elsewhere. If you've got a Charisma of 8, you're going to have a harder time hanging onto your money and putting it to game-effecting use. It can be explained flavor-wise in a number of ways, but it doesn't change that a Charisma that's at least 10 is probably a good idea.

[Ferdinand Von Plat]

You also get your income at the start of your first adventure.

Unless you have no Panache, in which case you don't get any money. And unless you put, say, 8 points into Cha you're probably only going to have a couple of Lifestyle to split between Panache and Prudence. And which is more important, 10s per level that will get reduced by whatever your prudence i and +1 Appearance for every 2-3 or 5% more income saved (or 1s saved per 20s earned) per level of Prudence?

Income at the start of an adventure is not effected by Prudence. Also, why on earth did you take take Cha 8? Unless your concept is to play a crass, charmless prat dropping Charisma below 10 is a bad idea. As for whether Panache or Prudence is more useful it depends on your character. If you spend all of your coin before the end of the adventure, a low Prudence isn't that big a handicap. Also, looking at my PCs in my Runelords game on the boards, my players and Alex (who made a PC but hasn't joined in yet) valued Panache over Prudence.

This is a non-issue. Buy what you really need, make use of the crude upgrade, and get better stuff with your first bit of loot. This isn't D&D. There are no real dump stats for any character and money is not as important.

Even if you start with 10 Charisma 4 classes get +1 Lifestyle at 2st level and 3 get +0. That means that they either have a total Lifestyle of 0-1 or they have to spread themselves really thin in the point buy to get +1 or +2 Cha mod so they can afford to have 1 in each derived stat from Lifestyle or maybe 1 in 1 and 2 in the other. It basically creates a situation where you need to be worse at combat to afford gear in the low levels until you can scrape together some Reputation to start getting Favors, Contacts, and Magic Items.

It's not necessarily bad, it just definitely changes the play dynamic from D&D where you generally bought gear during post-adventure downtime to trying to postpone the adventure end, particularly at low levels when you might want some mundane upgrades that might not have dropped or been rewarded during your first adventure or two.

[Krensky]

Even if you start with 10 Charisma 4 classes get +1 Lifestyle at 2st level and 3 get +0. That means that they either have a total Lifestyle of 0-1 or they have to spread themselves really thin in the point buy to get +1 or +2 Cha mod so they can afford to have 1 in each derived stat from Lifestyle or maybe 1 in 1 and 2 in the other. It basically creates a situation where you need to be worse at combat to afford gear in the low levels until you can scrape together some Reputation to start getting Favors, Contacts, and Magic Items.

You don't need to spread yourself thin to get a positive Charisma modifier, even without considering talents. The situation you describe is not there. Yes, a first level character doesn't have much gear, so? FC characters greatest strengths are in their abilities, not their toys.

[spinningdice]

Frankly in D&D about the only gear I buy is when gearing up or things like rations.
We've never played where magic items are widely available and by the time you get to about 3rd-4th level pretty much everything you own is looted.

[MugMug]

I found I needed to adjust my thoughts on equipment. For example, a backpack need not be part of a starting gear load. The backpack doesn't suddenly make you able to carry items (they can have integral straps, be tied on, be carried in a sack...), it provides a Str bonus for carrying capacity.

Once I identified my actual core gear, starting cash became sufficient.

Walter

[Morganti]

I found I needed to adjust my thoughts...

Walter

Can we post this as a helpful first step in Fantasy Craft-fu?

Adjust Your thoughts, what you know, is not what you know... what you think is not what you think... what was, is not what is.

  So much of adjusting to Fantasy Craft can be summed up with.. Adjust your thoughts

[Morgenstern]

Does FC assume that every adventurer starts at 1st level in rags with a rusty old weapon? Only 100s per level?

At 1st level what I consider a typical adventuring bundle would be:
* Backpack = 10s
* Blanket/Bedroll = 5s
* Canteen/Waterskin = 5s
* Firesteel/Tinderbox = 8s
* Pouch = 2s
* Rope, hemp = 6s
* Sack, large = 3s
* Torches (5) = 2s

Small question... Why would every character in the group bring the same stuff? Flintsteel/tinderbox (the second most expensive item) is something that having even a second seems a bit redundant to me. And while rope (3rd most expensive item) is great stuff, 5-6 of them in one party? What for? Probably could reduce the amount of doubling up on torches too.

[Khaalis]

Small question... Why would every character in the group bring the same stuff? Flintsteel/tinderbox (the second most expensive item) is something that having even a second seems a bit redundant to me. And while rope (3rd most expensive item) is great stuff, 5-6 of them in one party? What for? Probably could reduce the amount of doubling up on torches too.

Redundancy is the point.

This is assuming of course, a 'wilderness adventuring' type game where Travel and Exploration are a core part of the theme. If you are playing a city game for example, centering on social interaction, politics, etc. then no you wouldn't need these items. However, most of our games fall into the Exploration category, thus why I said this is what I consider an "adventuring bundle".

With that said, the "adventuring bundle" concept comes from many years as an experienced hiker and camper... "Be Prepared". If 5 people go trecking off into the wilds, you don't leave it to one person to be the sole source of the materials you need. What if they become separated? What if the item gets lost or destroyed or used up? This is also why you have 50 men in a military unit, all identically geared with basics.

Also, in the case of rope... "Rope" is a 50' length of rope. What about those times when you need 100'+, or if you need multiple rope leads between members of the party? Ever done mountain climbing, spelunking or repelling? One 50' length of rope isn't generally going to get you very far with a group of 4+ people.

As to the no backpack argument... sorry I don't buy that argument. Again, from many years as an experienced camper. Where are you going to put that 50' length of rope, those 5 torches, etc. without a backpack? Ever used a torch? They're very bulky. You aren't going to string 5 together and carry them on twine from your belt. Ever tried to wrap 50' of hemp rope around you? Might as well count as your armor. A backpack is essential when carrying this type of gear.

As for torches, each only lasts for 1 hour. If you are going to be going anywhere where you NEED torches, you are likely going to need many hours worth, and you will need more than 1 per hour (again, redundancy - you don't generally use a single torch for a whole group of people). Now granted you might not want the mage or sage lugging around this kind of stuff, but its definitely going to be more than just one party member.


On a related note, to those who replied on Rations... Where do you get that this is a multi-use item? As per what I find in the book...

Rations * Feeds 1 character for 1 day / 5s
*: These items spoil slowly enough that tracking when they go bad is pointless. They remain with the character until consumed or discarded.
Rations: Jerky, biscuits, and other trail foods are the perfect way to stay fed away from the comforts of civilization.


Thanks.

[Wolverine]

With that said, the "adventuring bundle" concept comes from many years as an experienced hiker and camper... "Be Prepared".

I'm also an experienced hiker/camper/former Boy Scout, so I know exactly where you're coming from, Khaalis.

However, what we're talking about here is a fantasy game, not a simulation of real world events. For example: If my players wanted to save some silver and not purchase flintsteel, I would get them to make a Survival roll to start a fire using a couple of weapons (because they always give off sparks when they clash in the movies). After all, Conan managed to travel great distances with little more than his sword, a pair of sturdy shoes, and a furry man-nappy

Also, you can use the lack of certain items as plot hooks or ways of complicating situations. Say they're trying to ford a fast-flowing river and are all tied together with rope, but there isn't enough to tie up all of them. Have the one player cling desperately to the back of another player and run the risk of being swept away by the current midstream.