Blend?

[Uthanar]

I don't really get this skill.  Maybe I'm trying to think more about it than I should.  The reason that I don't understand it is because I'm not really understanding how I can be skilled at not being noticed while not trying to not get noticed. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what it is about.  My first impression of it was when I thought about someone trying to remain hidden/unnoticed by no one in particular, for instance a pickpocket working the crowd.  If the pick pocket sees a guard he is probably not going to continue in his pick pocketing profession for the moment and probably try to get out of the area (and go to stealth).  The same pick pocket that is unaware of anyone in particular that he should be hiding from is just trying to blend into his surroundings and relieve individuals of their cash. 

Obviously, in that other game that uses a D20, both of those would be a Stealth roll, but here would one of them be blend and the other be stealth? 

I would love some other thoughts or examples of how Blend works instead of Stealth to help me grok the concept of it. 

Thanks all.

Happy gaming.
  Uthanar

[Wolverine]

One way to think of Blend is as Urban Stealth. Stealth allows you to hide in the wild, while Blend allows you to hide in a city.

This means your 'wilderness' characters aren't going to be as good at hiding in a crowded market as they are in a forest.

Nevermind, I'm confusing systems.

[Tegyrius]

The oversimplification I usually use in SC is that Sneak is "not being seen" while Blend is "not being noticed."

Looking at the FC descriptions, though, I think the key differentiation now may be that Sneak represents an active attempt to avoid detection while Blend is almost an innate quality of being unobtrusive: reflexively choosing the shadowed corner table, moving with the flow of the crowd, and dressing as the gray man.  Mechanically, Blend seems to be always active, while you have to intentionally declare use of Sneak.  Different bonuses may also apply to Blend/Stealth checks versus Sneak/Hide checks.

- C.

[Krensky]

It's passive stealth or blending with a crowd. More "I belong here" then "You can't see me."

[Gentry]

Blend can also be considered "casual" sneaking (or "sneaking without looking like you're sneaking"), and therefore easier to explain if you get caught.

Consider:

Failed Blend check:

Guard 1: Hey, does that guy know he's not supposed to be here?

Guard 2: We better warn him off before he gets in trouble. Hey buddy, this is a restricted area.

You: Oh, sorry. My bad.

Failed Sneak check:

Guard 1: Is there a guy trying to hide over there?

Guard 2: Hands in the air, punk!

You: Crap.

[Uthanar]

Blend can also be considered "casual" sneaking (or "sneaking without looking like you're sneaking"), and therefore easier to explain if you get caught.

At that point what would the purpose of Sneak be?  I guess there are times where you need to non-casually sneak around. 

It's passive stealth or blending with a crowd. More "I belong here" then "You can't see me."

That kinda goes back to what I was talking about initially (I think).  However, it doesn't address the opening line of the skill stating "This skill is used to subconsciously avoid detection - it comes into play whenever it's important to know whether observers see, hear, or otherwise sense a character who isn't intentionally trying to escape discovery."

I get what you are saying, and it is what I am thinking about the skill for ATM, but based on that passage I keep thinking that I must be misunderstanding the skill. 

The way it is written in that passage it reminds me of Arcane Background from Mage the Ascension.  Though less supernatural in its scope. 

The oversimplification I usually use in SC is that Sneak is "not being seen" while Blend is "not being noticed."

Looking at the FC descriptions, though, I think the key differentiation now may be that Sneak represents an active attempt to avoid detection while Blend is almost an innate quality of being unobtrusive: reflexively choosing the shadowed corner table, moving with the flow of the crowd, and dressing as the gray man.  Mechanically, Blend seems to be always active, while you have to intentionally declare use of Sneak.  Different bonuses may also apply to Blend/Stealth checks versus Sneak/Hide checks.

- C.

Interesting way to see it, and very possibly what we are supposed to look at it as.  Since we are doing it subconsciously, one way to do Blend subconsciously is to have consciously made decisions prior to this moment that would make us a little less noticeable. 

The part that snags me in your examples is the shadowed corner table.  I wonder what separates that from normal hiding in shadows.  I guess that in this example the character would be using the shadows to obscure but not hid his presence. 

Thanks for the replies, I'm just trying to get a solid grasp on it.
 
Happy gaming.
  Uthanar

[Wolverine]

The part that snags me in your examples is the shadowed corner table.  I wonder what separates that from normal hiding in shadows.  I guess that in this example the character would be using the shadows to obscure but not hid his presence.

It seems like you're confusing actively hiding with keeping a low profile. Choosing a shadowy corner keeps you out of the way, and thus out of peoples minds, while still being blatently in the room.

Think of Aragorn sitting in the Prancing Pony in Lord of the Rings. He isn't trying to hide from anyone, and everyone can see him. He is just sitting in a place where he doesn't draw attention to himself.

[Crafty_Alex]

That kinda goes back to what I was talking about initially (I think).  However, it doesn't address the opening line of the skill stating "This skill is used to subconsciously avoid detection - it comes into play whenever it's important to know whether observers see, hear, or otherwise sense a character who isn't intentionally trying to escape discovery."

The easiest way to explain it Blend in play is this:

When the GM needs to know if the players get spotted, and the players have not actively said "I'm sneaking up on these guys/around this place" use Blend generally opposed by Search.

When the players declare they are trying to sneak up on somebody, they use Sneak while their soon to be victims use Notice.

Blend is ALSO used for just...blending in, to crowds and scenery and so on, when you're not really trying. The way I used Blend in Spycraft a lot was an after the fact roll when a site was being examined forensically - a good Blender IMO is the type of guy who always wipes down doorknobs/avoids touching glass/leaving hairs at crime scenes and so on and so could check after the fact during a CSI analysis check.

The way it is written in that passage it reminds me of Arcane Background from Mage the Ascension.  Though less supernatural in its scope. 

That's actually an excellent way to think about it.

Looking at the FC descriptions, though, I think the key differentiation now may be that Sneak represents an active attempt to avoid detection while Blend is almost an innate quality of being unobtrusive: reflexively choosing the shadowed corner table, moving with the flow of the crowd, and dressing as the gray man.  Mechanically, Blend seems to be always active, while you have to intentionally declare use of Sneak.  Different bonuses may also apply to Blend/Stealth checks versus Sneak/Hide checks.

Exactly.

[MugMug]

Assuming:
* equal Dex and Cha modifiers;
* no character options that would affect Blend and Sneak differently; and
* max ranks in Blend;

is there any mechanical reason to purchase ranks in Sneak?

Walter

[Agent 333]

Good luck blending your way past a security checkpoint.

[Uthanar]

The way it is written in that passage it reminds me of Arcane Background from Mage the Ascension.  Though less supernatural in its scope. 

That's actually an excellent way to think about it.

Thanks, I'm starting to get it more, and the after the fact roll to counter a CSI team was an excellent example.  It seems like a skill that I have seen a number of groups make objection to one way or another. 

DM: You didn't say you did this, so you didn't.
Player: But I'm trained in this skill, it seems like I should have done that reflexively. 

This one deals specifically with something like that separating the two.

Thanks for the answer, and happy gaming.
  Uthanar

[Daedalus]

Assuming:
* equal Dex and Cha modifiers;
* no character options that would affect Blend and Sneak differently; and
* max ranks in Blend;

is there any mechanical reason to purchase ranks in Sneak?

Walter

Well, Sneak seems to be used when it's "time to get serious" and approaching a target.  You're acting conspicuously at this point, and shouldn't be considered as blending.  Blend strikes me as the defensive stealth skill while Sneak trikes me as the offensive stealth skill.  

A Scout uses earth from the area and possibly some straw to cover his armor (Pathfinder Mastery) in hopes of avoiding unexpected guests while traveling the plains.  His survival check later tell him that there were goblin skirmishers that just passed by and the tracks are fresh.  If he decides to skip this opportunity and move on to other objectives, then his Blend defends him against prying eyes.  If he decides to pursue the goblins' tracks into their camp or do reconnaissance work, he'll need to use Sneak, since it's conspicuous activity.

That's how I view it anyway.  There could be a batter explanation but "subconscious" has always reminded me of defense mechanisms.

[MugMug]

Good luck blending your way past a security checkpoint.

I've got my clipboard (or fantasy equivalent thereof); I'm good to go!

From a role-playing perspective, you could be looking like you belong, or passing through with another person or group, etc. And mechanically, as long as you weren't trying to hide you could inadvertently sneak past the checkpoint. Is the secret to ultimate stealth either not caring or being clueless?

I think I'll toy with the idea of Blend being people based and Sneak being scenery based (you Blend into a crowd, or Sneak through the bushes). I could roll in the active/passive concept, where each skill could be performed actively or passively, and passive use results in a -4 to any check trying to beat its active counter (e.g. your passive Sneak check as you walk through the woods is at -4 against Search checks).

Walter

[mach1.9pants]

Going in a different direction to the -4 modifier if 'not trying', I would keep the same mod but roll a d12 instead! (doesn't get enough loving, that die). Or d10 if you are a nasty DM

[Aldus Vertten]

Blend makes me think of the Bourne books, how he was able to disappear in a crowd with only a few changes, to seem to be someone else...