New! FantasyCraft! Origins and Races!

[Aldus Vertten]

one doubt...

could the effect of a spell be used as a Species talent? How much would it cost?

What spell? What level is it? How often can they use it? There are reputation cost aproximations that can be made by comparing the idea to the spell effect of magic items.

I'm playing around some species resembling the reol from SG, and tought that integrating the spell Disguise Self (Shapeshifting Level 1) in their description could be a solution for their powers...

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

There's the possibility of allowing a feat to exist that grants the taker additional steps along the Path that they took for their Blessed feat.  Taking that logic the unicorn maturity feats would just each grant the next step along the Path of Life.

Actually, there are very strong reasons why those feats aren't in the book already. They would need to be scripted to be very restrictive to prevent characters from using feats to get those steps faster than the priest class can get them - including characters who ARE priests. Paths are designed around access as class abliites. We've already seen some severe wonkiness from allowing access to them as feats.

What if Step-granting classes weren't being used?

[Morgenstern]

Actually, there are very strong reasons why those feats aren't in the book already. They would need to be scripted to be very restrictive to prevent characters from using feats to get those steps faster than the priest class can get them - including characters who ARE priests. Paths are designed around access as class abliites. We've already seen some severe wonkiness from allowing access to them as feats.

What if Step-granting classes weren't being used?

Honestly that doesn't make any difference (other than insuring you don't have class ability granted steps being stacked with feat-granted steps for total madness). The feats themselves would still need strong career level-based safeguards because the Path abilites were all built against/chosen to conform to the understood power curve ALL classes follow.

That's not to say such a framework couldn't be created. It's just that it may look a little odd compared to the much more easygoing feat prerequisites seen in most Fantasycraft feat chains . I'd still be very hesitant for the same reson I wouldn't make most other class abilities into feats - unique (non-bonus feat) class abilities are created with the expectation that players must invest class levels to get them. Persuing a class is a much more significant comitment to a concept than persuing a feat chain.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I'd still be very hesitant for the same reson I wouldn't make most other class abilities into feats - unique (non-bonus feat) class abilities are created with the expectation that players must invest class levels to get them. Persuing a class is a much more significant comitment to a concept than persuing a feat chain.

Well the alternative is to create a base class entirely from scratch that grants path steps but no other features of the priest class.  Given how much work that would be a chain of feats with complex prerequisites seems more viable.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

The feats themselves would still need strong career level-based safeguards because the Path abilites were all built against/chosen to conform to the understood power curve ALL classes follow.

Looking back over the Career Level table you can see that so long as the Step feats aren't granted as any kind of bonus feats it's impossible to get them any faster than the Priest class would have.  (Assuming the default progression of feat granting, of course.)

[Morgenstern]

Well the alternative is to create a base class entirely from scratch that grants path steps but no other features of the priest class.  Given how much work that would be a chain of feats with complex prerequisites seems more viable.

Ironically, from my perspective making the class would be the easier alternative - the two hardest parts of class design for me are comming up with a good game breaker and filling in the C ability because things that iterate 9-10 times are kinda hard to do. Steps-as-class-ability solves the second, meaning it would just need a good game breaker and the rest will largely 'write itself' if the class' theme/archetype is sound.

What did you want to use this for, again?

As to tackling it as a feat chain, yes, I agree that putting thim in a new and isolated tree is probably for the best. I tend to favor new trees when creating new power-bases unles there is a clear and strong reason to let an existing class gain superiors access.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

What did you want to use this for, again?

The concept is of much more focused and slightly less spell-based style of magic.  Magic can't be broken up into mix-and-match spells and is not controlled by skill or powered by discreet units of energy.  It comes from certain sources with certain forms of expression.  (The best I've been able to compare it to is the magic powers given to monsters: unless they're supposed to be a mage-type creature monster magic powers always follow a theme.)

The Mage class is too codified/mix-and-match in its magic.  The Priest class has too many features that feel religious (even re-skinned) and focused on being a Backer rather than more of a Wildcard.

[Doublebond]

So I thought I would try my hand at making at a specialty. I think it worked out all right but I figured I would run it by you guys to see if I screwed something up (a very potential possibility for me).

Glory Seeker
You come from humble beginnings, seeking adventure and fame beyond your wildest dreams!

• Bonus Feat: All In (1)
• Heroism – During dramatic scenes you gain a +1 bonus to all attack and skill checks (1)
• Encouragement – 1/scene you may grant a team mate +1 morale bonus with saving throws (1)
• Glory-Bound – You may purchase heroic renown for 40 Reputation per Rank (2)
• Celebrated – Your Legend rises by 2 (2)

I was trying to capture the feel of a stereotypical lad out from the shire, eyes all aglow, who really wants little more than to be an "adventurer" and go do something heroic. I think it works, but I can definately see how Glory-Bound and Celebrated might be too good a combo.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I was trying to capture the feel of a stereotypical lad out from the shire, eyes all aglow, who really wants little more than to be an "adventurer" and go do something heroic.

Well then concept-wise he shouldn't already have Legend.  Celebrated is for those who've managed to achieve notariety before starting out as an adventurer.  A stereotypical "just off the farm" kid should be unknown.

[Doublebond]

I was trying to capture the feel of a stereotypical lad out from the shire, eyes all aglow, who really wants little more than to be an "adventurer" and go do something heroic.

Well then concept-wise he shouldn't already have Legend.  Celebrated is for those who've managed to achieve notariety before starting out as an adventurer.  A stereotypical "just off the farm" kid should be unknown.

Yeah, I guess. I just figured that the boost to earning reputation fit with the concept. Perhaps Practiced skill (impress) would work?

[Nepenthe]

But then again, he might have gotten that +2 legend for being the local boy that killed the gorgon/whatever beast that had been massacring local cattle. Remember, crafty PCs aren't complete novices (even if you're playing optionally with just Origins).

[Wolverine]

In light of recent 'legal' events, I would just like to state that any similarity between the race and feat below and a certain fantasy race from a major gaming company are pure co-incidence. Okay, so there was some inspiration to be had, but the idea isn't exactly unique. Really, it isn't. Monte Cook did it before me, in a way.

Ratman
There has long been a rumour that a race of intelligent ratmen live in the sewers and caverns underneath the surface cities. Most dismiss this as nonsense, a scary story used to get children to obey their parents. Little do they realise the story is indeed true. For centuries, giant sentient rats have been building an empire that stretches over entire continents.
Common Personality Traits: Conniving, cowardly, greedy, shifty, skittish.
Common Physical Traits: Chisel-like teeth, furred bodies, hunched stature, quick and repetitive speech.
Example Names: Krathisk, Nurgquol, Skitterit, Skweek.
Splinter Race Feats: Clankin. Unless you choose this, you’re a “ratkin.”
Type: Medium (1×1) biped folk with a Reach of 1. Your maximum wounds equal your Constitution score.
• Attributes: +2 Dexterity, –2 Wisdom [1]
• Base Speed: 40 ft. [1]
• Always Ready: You may always act during surprise rounds. [2]
• Cat Fall: You suffer one less die of damage from falling. [1]
• Darkvision II: You gain Darkvision II. [1.5]
• Iconic Classes: If your level in any base class is higher than your level in either Burglar or Soldier, your starting action dice decrease by 2. [-1]
• Iconic Specialities: You gain your Specialities bonus feat only if you're an Acrobat, Barbarian, Criminal, Fighter, Fist, Guardian, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, or Swindler. [-1]
• Light Sleeper: Sleep is never a terminal situation for you. [0.5]
• Limited Proficiencies: You begin with 2 fewer proficiencies (minimum 0). [-0.5]
• Reviled: The Disposition of non-Ratmen decreases by 10. [-1.5]
• Stand Together: You gain a +2 morale bonus to Defense and all saves when at least 2 adjacent characters share your Species. [2]

Clankin
You're been raised as a member of one of the powerful Ratmen clans.
Requirements: Ratmen, Level 1 only
Benefit: Choose a clan
• Inventorkin: You gain a free Craft focus and the matching Crafting kit. Keeper is an iconic class for you.
• Mortiskin: You lose limited proficiencies and gain agile defence. Assassin is an iconic class for you.
• Mouldkin: You gain animal empathy and encouragement. Scout is an iconic class for you.
• Pestiskin: You gain contagin sense and iron gut. Priest is an iconic class for you.
• Seerkin: You gain either +1 Intelligence or Charisma and natural attack I (slam/headbutt). Mage is an iconic class for you.

The feat is a little rough, but you should be able to get an idea for where I was trying to go.

[MrkMllr]

I like it.  It actually fits something that I was thinking of doing for my Urban Campaign. 

[Daedalus]

I was trying to capture the feel of a stereotypical lad out from the shire, eyes all aglow, who really wants little more than to be an "adventurer" and go do something heroic.

Well then concept-wise he shouldn't already have Legend.  Celebrated is for those who've managed to achieve notariety before starting out as an adventurer.  A stereotypical "just off the farm" kid should be unknown.

Yeah, I guess. I just figured that the boost to earning reputation fit with the concept. Perhaps Practiced skill (impress) would work?

There's quite a few choices here, but Celebrated does have an effect after every adventure, so local fame doesn't quite cut it.  Practiced Skill (Impress) makes sense, since most of those kids pretend they're heroes before they actually are.  I also like Paired Skills (Resolve and Impress) but Vanguard already has it.   Alternatively, being from a farm might give them Tenacious Spirit, which fits into the theme.  Flashy might also be appropriate, if the concept is prone to showing off and/or giving all of their money to the poor.  The young are also known for their lack of ability to manage money. 

[Doublebond]

There's quite a few choices here, but Celebrated does have an effect after every adventure, so local fame doesn't quite cut it.  Practiced Skill (Impress) makes sense, since most of those kids pretend they're heroes before they actually are.  I also like Paired Skills (Resolve and Impress) but Vanguard already has it.  Alternatively, being from a farm might give them Tenacious Spirit, which fits into the theme.  Flashy might also be appropriate, if the concept is prone to showing off and/or giving all of their money to the poor.  The young are also known for their lack of ability to manage money.  

I think tenacious spirit really fits the theme, so I'm going with that. Is there any place on the wiki I could store this? Regardless, here's how it looks now.

Glory Seeker:

• Bonus Feat (All In) [1]
• Heroism – During dramatic scenes you gain a +1 bonus to all attack and skill checks [1]
• Encouragement – 1/scene you may grant a team mate +1 morale bonus with saving throws.[1]
• Tenacious Spirit – You gain 1 additional vitality per level. [2]
• Glory-Bound – You may purchase heroic renown for 40 Reputation per Rank [2]

In addition I'm thinking of another specialty—the Fallen Lord. The basic idea is that you were formerly a lord of the land, but are no longer, having through some cruel twist of fate been left to fend for yourself at the bottom of society.

Maybe something like this?

Fallen Lord:

• Bonus Feat (Yeoman's Work) [1]
• Noble Blood – You may purchase noble renown for 40 Reputation per Rank [2]
• Natural Elegance – Your Appearance bonus increases by 1 [1]
• Decisive – You gain a +5 bonus with initiative. [2]
• Attribute Training - The lower of your Wisdom or Dexterity
  scores increases by 1 (your choice if a tie). Apply this bonus
  after any modifiers from your Species or Talent. [1]