New! FantasyCraft! Origins and Races!

[Deral]

Since the rules allow you to play Beast types as PCs how about some more of those?

Griffin (based on some versions seen in fiction which are sentient): [7]
Beast type [-2.5]
Large (1x2), Reach 1 [1]
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma [2] (this is based on the savage version, but there are also ones that are as smart and personable as a human)
Base Speed 30 ft [ 0]
Winged Flight 50 ft [2.5]
Low-light vision [1]
Eagle-Eyed: Your visual range increments are equal to Wis x 80 ft. [1] (half of Elf Sight, I wasn't really sure how to price this)
Bite I and Talon (or Claw) II [1.5]
Iconic Specialties [-1]
Thick Hide 2 [1]
Light Sleeper [0.5]

Beast is only -2, but it should be easy enough to drop the light sleeper.

I'm pretty sure he was going by the Wiki, which says 2.5, my understanding was it was the most up to date resource on it.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Beast is only -2....

I'm pretty sure he was going by the Wiki, which says 2.5, my understanding was it was the most up to date resource on it.

Exactly, I'm not sure where the -2 is coming from.

[Nepenthe]

Beast is only -2....

I'm pretty sure he was going by the Wiki, which says 2.5, my understanding was it was the most up to date resource on it.

Exactly, I'm not sure where the -2 is coming from.

From somebody who generally trumps the wiki.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

....I'm not sure where the -2 is coming from.

From somebody who generally trumps the wiki.

So there's been a statement from an official source on the issue?

[Aragathor]

Well, Morg was (until very recently) a part of the core design team.
He wrote a huge chunk of FC.

So if he says it's 2 then it's 2, unless you see some armored bears parachuting outside your window.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Then the wiki should probably be changed, otherwise the Drake is 0.5 points over.

[Agent 333]

Then the wiki should probably be changed, otherwise the Drake is 0.5 points over.

The Drake also had several other features (such as flight and a breath weapon) not found in other species. Changing beast should be easy enough, we just figure out which other feature is overcosted...

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Type: Beast [-2, per the new ruling]
Size/Reach: Large, Reach 2 [2]
Attributes: +2 Specific, -2 Specific [1]
Base Speed: 30 ft [ 0 ]
Breath Weapon [3]
Iconic Specialties [-1]
Inquisitive Mind [1]
Natural Attack: 2 grade I [1]
Winged Flight 50 ft [2.5]

Inquisitive Mind might be 0.5, but oddly it gives the benefit of two studies or two langauges, plus or two any other kind of interests like Alignment, but on the wiki it's costed the same as Broad Learning (2 studies only) and Linguist (2 languages only) so they'd have to be reduced in cost as well, which would lead to a cascade of changes in anything that includes those two.  I thought about Winged Flight, but if you break the cost down to something like this -- 0.5 to gain a new mode of travel at 30 ft, +2 up to 50 ft (base speed 50 ft costs 2) -- it seems about right.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Something I just thought of: does the normal -2 for Beast type assume that the species in question still has manipulation ability however limited?  Because that's the different between a drake (crude hands) and a unicorn (no hands).

[Morgenstern]

Inquisitive mind, broad learning, and linguist all have the same value (1). The designer simply has the option to focus the end user's range of choices to better represent the concept being presented.

Not that much difference between a Drake and a Unicorn, since both of them have a pointy extremity that can reasonably push buttons/flip light switches but not turn a doorknob . The beast limitation is set up to key to gear handling, so it primarly impacts fine tool use, not crude manipulation of the environment.

I think the Drake's entry for flight cost in the wiki is correct (working from memory...? 2.5?). I suspect it was the breath weapon that was overcosted on the wiki. As cool as it is, if you work the numbers, their basic breath weapon is not all that devestating. SilvercatMoonpaw's break down looks reasonable.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

So let's do this again:

Drake: Beast [-2]
Size/Reach: Large, Reach 2 [2]
Attributes: +2 Specific, -2 Specific [1]
Base Speed: 30 ft [ 0 ]
Breath Weapon [2.5]
Iconic Specialties [-1]
Inquisitive Mind [1]
Natural Attack: 2 grade I [1]
Winged Flight 50 ft [2.5]

Griffin (my savage version): Beast type [-2]
Large (1x2), Reach 1 [1]
+2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma [2] (this is based on the savage version, but there are also ones that are as smart and personable as a human)
Base Speed 30 ft [ 0]
Winged Flight 50 ft [2.5]
Low-light vision [1]
Eagle-Eyed: Your visual range increments are equal to Wis x 80 ft. [1]
Bite I and Talon (or Claw) II [1.5]
Iconic Specialties [-1]
Thick Hide 2 [1]

Gryphon (Deral's heraldic version): Beast [-2]
Large (1x2), Reach 1 [1]
+3 Dexterity, +3 Wisdom, -3 Intelligence [4]
Base Speed 30 ft [ 0]
Eagle Eyes [as Elf Sight, 2]
Iconic Classes: Scout or Soldier [-1]
Iconic Specialties: Aristocrat, Barbarian, Cleric, Fighter, Gladiator, Ranger, Shaman, Tribesman, Vanguard, or Warden [-1]
Light Sleeper [0.5]
Limited Proficiencies [-0.5]
Bite II and Claw II [2]
Winged Flight 50' [2.5]

Unicorn: Beast [-2]
Large (1x2), Reach 1 [1]
+3 Dex [4]
Base Speed 40 ft [1]
Natural Elegance [1]
Iconic Classes: Priest or Keeper [-1]
Iconic Specialties [-1]
Limited Proficiencies [-0.5]
Kick I and Gore II [1.5]
Bonus Feat: Bandage [3]

I think pawsplay's suggestion that healing unicorns are priests actually makes some sense if you think of them as nature priests then the extra priest abilities and "being in tune with nature", which does seem to fit romantic ideas of unicorns.  Still, I've seen occasional unicorn portrayals that don't make them out to be like that, so some sort of "maturity" species feat would probably be a good idea.

[Aldus Vertten]

one doubt...

could the effect of a spell be used as a Species talent? How much would it cost?

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

There's the possibility of allowing a feat to exist that grants the taker additional steps along the Path that they took for their Blessed feat.  Taking that logic the unicorn maturity feats would just each grant the next step along the Path of Life.

[Morgenstern]

There's the possibility of allowing a feat to exist that grants the taker additional steps along the Path that they took for their Blessed feat.  Taking that logic the unicorn maturity feats would just each grant the next step along the Path of Life.

Actually, there are very strong reasons why those feats aren't in the book already. They would need to be scripted to be very restrictive to prevent characters from using feats to get those steps faster than the priest class can get them - including characters who ARE priests. Paths are designed around access as class abliites. We've already seen some severe wonkiness from allowing access to them as feats.

[Morgenstern]

one doubt...

could the effect of a spell be used as a Species talent? How much would it cost?

What spell? What level is it? How often can they use it? There are reputation cost aproximations that can be made by comparing the idea to the spell effect of magic items.