New! FantasyCraft! Origins and Races!

[Aragathor]

It's that time again and you've probably expected me to start this thread.
Here are four easy pieces to get started:  

Talents
Fierce - You are filled to the brim with wild and untamed energy.
[3]Attributes: +2 Strength
[1]No Pain – You ignore the first fatigued or shaken condition you gain in each scene
[3]Menacing Threat – You may threaten up to 3 opponents at once. You roll only once for the action, while each opponent rolls to resist separately.

Mercenary - You'll do anything for money. Really anything.
[1]Attributes: +2 Wis, -2 Int
[2]Grueling Combatant – Each time an adjacent opponent attacks you and misses, he suffers 2 points of subdual damage.
[2]Last Chance – You may spend and roll 2 AD to boost any save
[1]Origin Skill - Choose one additional origin skill
[1]Warding Strike - You gain the Warding Strike trick

Specialties
Samurai - You serve your Daimyo and follow Bushido, to the letter.
[2]Bonus Feat: Any Melee Combat feat
[2]Edged proficiency and forte
[1]Natural Elegance – Your Appearance bonus increases by 1
[1]Broad Learning - You gain 2 additional studies
[1]Heroism – During dramatic scenes you gain  a +1 bonus to all attack and skill checks


Siqlabi - You're a warrior from the land of the Rus, serving your moorish masters.
[1]Bonus Feat - Combat Instincts
[2]Decisive – You gain a +5 bonus with initiative
[2]Practiced Skill (Notice) – If you spend an AD on a skill check with the named skill and it fails, then you receive the AD back.
[1]Unbreakable – Each time you suffer attribute impairment, it decreases by 1 (min 0)
[1]Edged weapon proficiency - you gain the edged weapon proficiency


And something more revolutionary. I thought about using talents to represent not singular abilities of humans but cultures. Something like starting packages from the player's guide to faerun. Here's one:

Byzantine - Your plots and plans are like that.
[1]+2 Cha -2 Con
[2]Sharp Mind – you gain 1 additional skill point per level
[1]Charming – 1/Session you may improve the disposition of one non-adversary NPC by 5.
[1]Natural Elegance – Your Appearance bonus increases by 1
[1]Linguist – you gain 2 additional languages
[1]Origin Skill - Choose one additional origin skill

[Blankbeard]

And something more revolutionary. I thought about using talents to represent not singular abilities of humans but cultures. Something like starting packages from the player's guide to faerun. Here's one:

Byzantine - Your plots and plans are like that.
[1]+2 Cha -2 Con
[2]Sharp Mind – you gain 1 additional skill point per level
[1]Charming – 1/Session you may improve the disposition of one non-adversary NPC by 5.
[1]Natural Elegance – Your Appearance bonus increases by 1
[1]Linguist – you gain 2 additional languages
[1]Origin Skill - Choose one additional origin skill

Hey, thanks for adding the descriptions to the origins for the wiki.  How does Byzantine fit into an origin?  It looks like a talent, but I know you've said you want species to be culture independent.  Would this be used in place of a talent/species?

[Morgenstern]

I like (fierce in particular). Normally the benefits would be listed in alphabetical order. Samurai looks off - any feat from a single tree is 1 point I believe.

[Blankbeard]

I like (fierce in particular). Normally the benefits would be listed in alphabetical order. Samurai looks off - any feat from a single tree is 1 point I believe.

tl;dr:  I thought it was 2.  I did maths and stuff.  Are you sure?

The Sorcerer comes out as
[2] Bonus Feat: Any Species (b)
[1] Charming (c)
[2] Paired Skills (s)
[2] Terrifying Look (l)

The Cleric is
[2] Bonus Feat: Any Chance (b)
[1] Charming (c)
[1] Field Medicine (f)
[2] Paired Skills (s)
[1] Turning (t)

The Adept is
[2] Bonus Feat: Any Spellcasting (b)
[1] Free Hint (fh)
[1] Heroism (h) You said to try 1 for this.
[2] Practised Search (p)
[1] Turning (t)

Since they're all 7 point talents
b+fh+h+p+t = b+c+f+s+t = b+c+s+l

So
b+c+f+s+t = b+c+s+l
Cancel and  f+t = l  So Terrifying Look's cost equals the sum of Field Medicine + Turning
The other 2
b+fh+h+p+t = b+c+f+s+t
Cancel and
fh+h+p = c+f+s
Heroism you said to try at 1.  Free Hint and Charming are both 1 in Talents.  That's not a guarantee that they're 1 here, but let's try it
p+2 = s+f+1 or p+1 = s+f
Looking at Sorcerer (and assuming Charming is 1)
b+1+s+l =7 or b+s+l=6.  It would be nice if they were all 2, wouldn't it?

Let's see if we can narrow down s or l.  The Miner speciality has
[1] Bonus Feat (Specific)  This was one of your hints I believe
[1] A proficiency
[1] A skill focus
[1] A trick and
[1] Another trick
I think all of these are reasonable as 1 point abilities  That just leaves Paired skills (our s) to be 2.  So let's tentatively assign a value of 2 to it.

Corsair is the only other talent with Terrifying look.  It has
[1] Bonus Feat (Specific)
[1] Agile Defense
[?] Flashy
[?] Terrifying Look
[1] Skill Focus
So Flashy + Terrifying Look =4 and Terrifying Look is probably greater than 1 due to being the sum of Field Medicine and Turning.  TL could be 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, or 3.5  Flashy gives 2 points of panache, so I'd like it to be 2.  It's also in Aristocrat with 3 one point abilities and Noble Renown, thus the Renown and Flashy also sum to 4.

Can I show that Renown is probably 2?  Dragoon is
[1] Bonus Feat (Specific)
[2] 2 proficiencies
[?] Military Renown
[?] Paired Skills

While Musketeer is
[1] Bonus Feat (Specific)
[1] Attribute Training (Proof omitted because I want to finish tonight)
[1] A proficiency
[1] A Trick
[1] Heroism
[2} Military Renown

So the renown is probably 2.  Since Dragoon shows Military Renown + Paired Skills =4, Paired Skills, s , =2
Flashy + Noble renown =4 and renown is probably 2, so Flashy =2
Paired skills works in Miner as 2 too
Oh, and Flashy + Terrifying Look =4, so TL =4 (l in the original formula)
Oh, and Lord pairs Flashy and Practiced Skill with Stand Together (2ish) and a bonus feat(1).  So Practiced Skill is probably 2 as well.

Since we knew that Bonus Feat (Any 1 tree) + Paired SKills + Terrifying Look =6 and PS and TL are both 2, so should be Bonus Feat any 1 tree.

If you plug these values into our original 3 talents, you'll see that Turning has to be 1 point, which leaves Field Medicine to be 1 point.

I had to make some assumptions about values to make this work, but that's basically how I came up with 2 for a bonus feat from any 1 tree.  

[Morgenstern]

Terrifying look is a 'use an action on three targets at once', same as several other itterations.

The other commonality is turning. I'd say turning is more than a 1 point ability.

[Blankbeard]

Terrifying look is the +4 to stress DC.  I've got it costed at the same as Harsh Beating which is the subdual version.

One of the problems with making a list like this is that I can say with confidence that X+Y=3 but I can't nail down X or Y.

Using the various specialities that get some form of Renown ability, I can show that Paired Skills, Practised Skill, and Flashy almost certainly have the same value and that that value is probably 2.  And I can use Musketeer to show that Attribute training is probably 1 too.

More on this tomorrow.  Turning is pretty buff but I have issues with setting it at 1.5 or 2. 

[Morgenstern]

Terrifying look is the +4 to stress DC.  I've got it costed at the same as Harsh Beating which is the subdual version.

Ah. Then you are most likely correct.

[Aragathor]

And something more revolutionary. I thought about using talents to represent not singular abilities of humans but cultures. Something like starting packages from the player's guide to faerun. Here's one:

Byzantine - Your plots and plans are like that.
[1]+2 Cha -2 Con
[2]Sharp Mind – you gain 1 additional skill point per level
[1]Charming – 1/Session you may improve the disposition of one non-adversary NPC by 5.
[1]Natural Elegance – Your Appearance bonus increases by 1
[1]Linguist – you gain 2 additional languages
[1]Origin Skill - Choose one additional origin skill

Hey, thanks for adding the descriptions to the origins for the wiki.  How does Byzantine fit into an origin?  It looks like a talent, but I know you've said you want species to be culture independent.  Would this be used in place of a talent/species?

It's a talent. I thought about playing a game in medieval Europe, without magic and fantasy races. And I hit a snag right away, talents are culture independent which makes the origin culture have no meaning for players (because it doesn't change anything). So I tinkered with an idea of taking talents away and making them cultures/nationalities. This way a player would be able to play a viking artisan without ever picking up combat classes or a Moorish Nomad to represent the Berber. It's also a nice way to show off some of the Crafty flexibility.

I like (fierce in particular). Normally the benefits would be listed in alphabetical order. Samurai looks off - any feat from a single tree is 1 point I believe.

I live to serve, but I prefer to list the benefits in a format I used earlier with the point cost determining where the benefit stands. Oh, and wait till you see some more origins.

So ANY feat is worth 1 or 2? Because if it's only 1 then having a specific feat for 1 does not make sense.

[Morgenstern]

So ANY feat is worth 1 or 2? Because if it's only 1 then having a specific feat for 1 does not make sense.

Choice of feats from 1 specific tree (other than spellcasting and maybe species) is 1. A specific feat is also 1. At the end of the day you get a feat and 6 points of other stuff (feat options that cost more than 1 exist, but they have been used incredibly rarely). Tightly themed specialties benefit from telling you exactly which feat goes with all the rest of the goodies. It's not like an archer suffers from being told "your bonus feat is Archery Basics (duh)." At the same time no other specialty offering "your choice of Ranged combat feats" so completely backs up the choice of Archery Basics. Neither is particularly stronger than the other.

As a note about design history, many of the Specialties that offer a specific feat started with the feat and then had a name and remaining benefits built around that feat. Those that offer a specific tree are about 50/50 for starting with a cool name and having a tree assigned to it or starting with the tree (so the menu included examples of 'choose a feat' from every tree) and got the name later.
'
*edit* Interesting. Blankbeards examples include both a species and a spellcasting feat. Hmm...

[Morgenstern]

It's a talent. I thought about playing a game in medieval Europe, without magic and fantasy races. And I hit a snag right away, talents are culture independent which makes the origin culture have no meaning for players (because it doesn't change anything).

You could make the matching native culture a requirement for taking the Talent. Then any character could have the native culture, but only those that do are (mechanically) allowed the Talent that exemplifies the features associated with that culture. I've been planning talents for an addaptation of L5R and talent-as-culture seems workable thus far in that environment.

You said you sorted these by point value? I see some counting up, and some counting down. I don't follow your sort criteria.

[ThunderMonkey]

I like (fierce in particular). Normally the benefits would be listed in alphabetical order. Samurai looks off - any feat from a single tree is 1 point I believe.

I would have thought the Samurai deserved its own class build. There is just so many different directions you can go with one. If nothing else... they would warrant their own alliance or faction that would allow them to carry and display daisho or possess a horse and bow (depending upon what era of feudal Japan you base you setting). However, that level of detail may or may not be needed. It's a game after all.

[Crafty_Alex]

I would have thought the Samurai deserved its own class build. There is just so many different directions you can go with one.

The Lancer is surprisingly appropriate for samurai, particularly when they're modified by Origins (archery focused Samurai might have the Archer Specialty, for example, while lords would have Lord (duh) and great warriors might have Fighter).

[Desertpuma]

Or even Cavalier

[ThunderMonkey]

I would have thought the Samurai deserved its own class build. There is just so many different directions you can go with one.

The Lancer is surprisingly appropriate for samurai, particularly when they're modified by Origins (archery focused Samurai might have the Archer Specialty, for example, while lords would have Lord (duh) and great warriors might have Fighter).

For a samurai perhaps a build of Lancer/Courtier/Soldier or Lancer/Courtier/Captain or Lancer/Captain. A Myamoto Musashi-type of character would sacrifice levels in the above classes to pick up Edgemaster.

[Eärendle]

Happiness!

It's a talent. I thought about playing a game in medieval Europe, without magic and fantasy races. And I hit a snag right away, talents are culture independent which makes the origin culture have no meaning for players (because it doesn't change anything).

You could make the matching native culture a requirement for taking the Talent. Then any character could have the native culture, but only those that do are (mechanically) allowed the Talent that exemplifies the features associated with that culture. I've been planning talents for an addaptation of L5R and talent-as-culture seems workable thus far in that environment.

I saw Aragathor's examples and immediately thought of statting out nations from 7th Sea.