SRD Races for Fantasy Craft

[Blankbeard]

This is my attempt making the races from the SRD usable in Fantasy Craft.  They're fairly close to balancing without a lot of tweaking.  Well, except the half orc.  We knew he wasn't right.

Personally, I like the FC versions better than the SRD ones, but I thought it would be interesting to work them up and see what came out.  The gnome comes out a half point over, feel free to knock out that crafting focus.  The abilities are just my own judgement, YMMV, consult your doctor before beginning a race conversion plan, etc.

[mach1.9pants]

Cool those are nice and look about right to me.

 The only thing I am not sold on is the weapon group forte. I know that it is outwith the rules but I would give them in the actual weapon types and knock the points down to 1.5. And I am glad the dodge vs giants and that is not stated... just the lamest hold over from previous editions..."all gnomes are trained in special fighting techniques on how to dodge giants attack". Rubbish in so many way!

[Morgenstern]

Interestng take on the subject. The Halfling '+1 to all saves' sounds like a 2 point ability to me. But then again 3.x Halflings were always overpowered.

[Leif]

I like a great deal of what FC has done with traditional fantasy races, except for the apparent inability of Dwarves to jump or swim whatsoever. I'll probably tone down all the race/skill restrictions and add more subraces/subcultures.

[ThunderMonkey]

I would be less inclined to give a race a bonus proficiency or increased skill, unless there's a genetic reason as to why they should.

It would free up more points to be spent elsewhere.

[Nepenthe]

except for the apparent inability of Dwarves to jump or swim whatsoever.

Inability to take actions requiring jump or swim checks. Difference.

[Krensky]

I like a great deal of what FC has done with traditional fantasy races, except for the apparent inability of Dwarves to jump or swim whatsoever. I'll probably tone down all the race/skill restrictions and add more subraces/subcultures.

They can't make jump or swim checks, because they're dwarves. The races are balanced as is, if you remove the banned checks and iconic class/specialties you make non-humans better then humans and screw the power curve up.

[MDL]

They can't make jump or swim checks, because they're dwarves. The races are balanced as is, if you remove the banned checks and iconic class/specialties you make non-humans better then humans and screw the power curve up.

While the Banned checks definitely seem to serve the purpose of providing gameplay balance, I really don't think that's particularly accurate for the Iconics.

Most species Iconic Classes are classes that synergize particularly well with the species benefits and penalties.  Gaining no penalty at all with a build that's particularly effective, yet receiving a significant penalty if built using a class the species isn't particularly effective in doesn't smack me as much of a game balance mechanic.  If an Orc Soldier with 3 action dice is balanced, I somehow doubt an Orc Courtier with 3 action dice would be woefully overpowered and only brought in line by losing two action dice.

The Iconics really feel more like a mechanical Stick to discourage players from building things too different from the species norm.

I think most people that take issue with them come from one of a few reasons.  First off would be just disliking the fact that it is very much the Stick approach to channeling the species in certain directions.

Then there's the fact that as a flavor/defining the details of the setting mechanic people are going to want to change and or remove it just because it doesn't match what they want the species to be for the setting they're planning on GMing.  This can come in the rather obvious form of 'Dwarves in this setting are really religious, priest should be an Iconic for them as well' and similar, to more subtle distinctions.  As written Humans are flexible, vastly more flexible than any other species.  No class or specialty limtations, choice of a Talent(while less beefy than species bonuses still tends to be pretty potent) that most perfectly aligns with the build concept...  That really builds up to the 'Non humans do one or two things well and are defined by that, most members of the species will focus on that, while humans are the jack of all trades species with lots more variation in individuals' style of setting.  That's fine for a setting design concept, but not everyone is going to want to run a game with that particular style.  Dropping the Iconic limitations(particularly Classes, IMO) is the easiest way to minimize this particular implied aspect of setting from the rules, if the GM doesn't feel it fits the setting/campaign he's working on.

[Blankbeard]

Having iconic classes and specialities at all is the penalty.  You can change which classes are iconic without worry.  The idea is that Orc culture (and maybe Orc biology) tends to produce people who gravitate towards certain roles.  If it fits your campaign to make those roles Courtier and Sage, go for it.  There shouldn't be any major issues.

If you don't like iconics at all, there are a few other penalties of the same value in the wiki.  It's a self plug but they're at http://www.crafty-games.com/node/874  Beware, those are my values and while I think they're pretty close, some of them are probably wrong. 

The Iconics really feel more like a mechanical Stick to discourage players from building things too different from the species norm.

I think most people that take issue with them come from one of a few reasons.  First off would be just disliking the fact that it is very much the Stick approach to channeling the species in certain directions.

 

There is definitely a vision of how races, classes, and everything else the game works.  While I generally like that vision, I really like that the system is strong enough to survive modification.

If you do take out the iconics, replace them with something else, remove an ability, or give humans a point or so of abilities.  That should keep the relative balance close enough to avoid overpowering anyone.

[Morgenstern]

Most species Iconic Classes are classes that synergize particularly well with the species benefits and penalties. Gaining no penalty at all with a build that's particularly effective, yet receiving a significant penalty if built using a class the species isn't particularly effective in doesn't smack me as much of a game balance mechanic.  If an Orc Soldier with 3 action dice is balanced, I somehow doubt an Orc Courtier with 3 action dice would be woefully overpowered and only brought in line by losing two action dice.

Its a huge difference if you have a world with reasonably intelligent opposition - because you expect and therefore plan for dealing with an orc soldier, but might be taken entirely by surprise by an orc who turns out to be a courtier. Part of the 'cost' of iconic classes/specialties is even if you stay between the lines, you are predictable.

Characters don't wear a 3.5' notecard on their forehead with their species stats penciled in, but the logical impact of iconic classes is expectations about characters of those species being widespread... and quite frequently correct.

[Sletchman]

I like a great deal of what FC has done with traditional fantasy races, except for the apparent inability of Dwarves to jump or swim whatsoever. I'll probably tone down all the race/skill restrictions and add more subraces/subcultures.

Yesterday, I watch Lord of the Rings [all of them, in order], and that scene where Gimli gets Aragorn to throw him at the Orcs assaulting Helms Deep because he couldn't jump sums up this restriction perfectly.  I'm almost tempted to give them ride penalties too [almost...]

[Aragathor]

I like a great deal of what FC has done with traditional fantasy races, except for the apparent inability of Dwarves to jump or swim whatsoever. I'll probably tone down all the race/skill restrictions and add more subraces/subcultures.

Yesterday, I watch Lord of the Rings [all of them, in order], and that scene where Gimli gets Aragorn to throw him at the Orcs assaulting Helms Deep because he couldn't jump sums up this restriction perfectly.  I'm almost tempted to give them ride penalties too [almost...]

I would like to point out that it's not something from the book if I remember right and that FC races are heavily inspired by the LOTR setting, which in turn makes them non-compatible with settings that deviate from the set of rules used in it.

I would also like to point out that this isn't a banned checks/iconics discussion and it would be nice to either split it into 2 or simply continue with the topic at hand, which is Blankbeards SRD races.


They are nice but I will probably make my conversions a bit different. Nevertheless good work Blankbeard.

[Sletchman]

I would also like to point out that this isn't a banned checks/iconics discussion and it would be nice to either split it into 2 or simply continue with the topic at hand, which is Blankbeards SRD races.

They are nice but I will probably make my conversions a bit different. Nevertheless good work Blankbeard.

Of course, mea culpa.

Blankbeard, I think the conversions are quite good work, and accurately represent the 3.5 SRD races.  I like what you did the with the Half-Orc which has always been, frankly, crap.   Are you planning on giving humans something to offset the free sharp mind?  I know that +1 skill point per level is a human thing in DnD, but with sharp mind and the excellent available Talents, I wouldn't play one of the other races as they stand, because humans are too good.

[Blankbeard]

All of the blue abilities are meant to be optional and used to shore up races that seem to be weak.  I'd only give humans sharp mind if you think they need it to be attractive to players or if you are not using favoured classes.  Otherwise, talent and done.

[Sletchman]

All of the blue abilities are meant to be optional and used to shore up races that seem to be weak.  I'd only give humans sharp mind if you think they need it to be attractive to players or if you are not using favoured classes.  Otherwise, talent and done.

Ah, didn't realise you intended it to be optional.  Good work.