Iconic Classes and Specialties

[Aragathor]

I thought about writing a long response, but I prefer short answers.

The races in FC aren't D&D races, and me and my gaming buddies are playing D&D. This is why I will change the races, because right now FC does not give me the ability to play an Inugaakalikurit (if you don't need to google this then you are good).
I simply want to play canonic D&D races, with their abilities fitting in with FC.

This also why won't add any weaknesses to the racial abilities, because very few races in D&D have racial drawbacks. And I won't be using races from the FC book, instead I'll create them.

[Mister Andersen]

because right now FC does not give me the ability to play an Inugaakalikurit (if you don't need to google this then you are good).
I simply want to play canonic D&D races, with their abilities fitting in with FC.

Not having seen a write-up for the species I can't speak to specifics, but Elemental Herritage is a reasonable place to start

This also why won't add any weaknesses to the racial abilities, because very few races in D&D have racial drawbacks.

Except the whole favoured class crimp to multi-classing.

[Mister Andersen]

To put it another way, you want to play something wacky, play it for Roleplaying reasons so you can earn those missing AD back.

Is it that you start the game with 2 less action dice, or thatyour starting action dice are reduced by 2?

[Blankbeard]

I thought about writing a long response, but I prefer short answers.

The races in FC aren't D&D races, and me and my gaming buddies are playing D&D. This is why I will change the races, because right now FC does not give me the ability to play an Inugaakalikurit (if you don't need to google this then you are good).
I simply want to play canonic D&D races, with their abilities fitting in with FC.

This also why won't add any weaknesses to the racial abilities, because very few races in D&D have racial drawbacks. And I won't be using races from the FC book, instead I'll create them.

Hmm.  I found this http://bertball.com/wiki/index.php?title=Arctic_Dwarf and assumed it was right for their abilities.

+4 Str +2 Con -2 Dex -2 Cha  Same numbers as an Ogre, so call it 4 points
Small  That's 1 point
Damage Resistance 10/Cold  Maybe 2 based on the species feats that give or increase damage resistance.

Are these guys immune to normal cold (Which is 1d6 subdual) or all cold damage?  If all cold, I don't know.  Blanket immunities are hard to price.  Constructs are immune to lots, but that's an expensive type.  I'm not sure that breaking up a type and pricing it will produce useful numbers.

[Aragathor]

I thought about writing a long response, but I prefer short answers.

The races in FC aren't D&D races, and me and my gaming buddies are playing D&D. This is why I will change the races, because right now FC does not give me the ability to play an Inugaakalikurit (if you don't need to google this then you are good).
I simply want to play canonic D&D races, with their abilities fitting in with FC.

This also why won't add any weaknesses to the racial abilities, because very few races in D&D have racial drawbacks. And I won't be using races from the FC book, instead I'll create them.

Hmm.  I found this http://bertball.com/wiki/index.php?title=Arctic_Dwarf and assumed it was right for their abilities.

+4 Str +2 Con -2 Dex -2 Cha  Same numbers as an Ogre, so call it 4 points
Small  That's 1 point
Damage Resistance 10/Cold  Maybe 2 based on the species feats that give or increase damage resistance.

Are these guys immune to normal cold (Which is 1d6 subdual) or all cold damage?  If all cold, I don't know.  Blanket immunities are hard to price.  Constructs are immune to lots, but that's an expensive type.  I'm not sure that breaking up a type and pricing it will produce useful numbers.

That's a close one, but Arctic Dwarves will get their own Racial Feat. The standard (Shield) Dwarves give them basic stats and the +2 Con -2 Cha, so we're looking at +4 Str -2 Dex. The cold we are talking about would be normal cold, since it fits with their habitat.

[Crafty_Alex]

*Chuckle* Why would you assume that Iconic Class or Specialties are cultural?

Because we all know the differences between groups of people are entirely cultural, and with just a little more of the right education can be completely overcome.

Absolutely.

Now, if only elves and dwarves and drakes and rootwalkers were actually people...

[MugMug]

*Chuckle* Why would you assume that Iconic Class or Specialties are cultural?

Because we all know the differences between groups of people are entirely cultural, and with just a little more of the right education can be completely overcome.

Absolutely.

Now, if only elves and dwarves and drakes and rootwalkers were actually people...

Um... my premise was tongue-in-cheek. But point noted (and already agreed with) about the whole "people" thing.

[accent type=country]Them ain't folk, they're fey 'n beasts 'n plants 'n such.[/accent]

Walter

[spinningdice]

To put it another way, you want to play something wacky, play it for Roleplaying reasons so you can earn those missing AD back.

Is it that you start the game with 2 less action dice, or thatyour starting action dice are reduced by 2?

Hmm, I'd not considered it's effects on abilities based on Starting AD uses per scene/session/adventure... That does make the drawback a bit less appealing.

[Crafty_Alex]

To put it another way, you want to play something wacky, play it for Roleplaying reasons so you can earn those missing AD back.

Is it that you start the game with 2 less action dice, or thatyour starting action dice are reduced by 2?

Hmm, I'd not considered it's effects on abilities based on Starting AD uses per scene/session/adventure... That does make the drawback a bit less appealing.

Most drawbacks are supposed boe at least somewhat unappealing...

[VisualStatic]

Any idea I'm mulling over is that for iconic classes, a character would get something more then rest.

Instead of playing an iconic class to remove the negative, what positive could be given to an iconic to make them better then the rest.  This based on the idea that a race has mastered these classes, perfected their training and equipment, so they are better then the norm.

Could it be as simple as saying, that iconic classes get 2 extra action dice?

The iconic specialties, I haven't come up with any thing yet for how to handle those.

[spinningdice]

But presumably the Iconic Classes/Specialties are statted as drawbacks, so you're taking away a drawback and adding a bonus?

[Crafty_Alex]

Any idea I'm mulling over is that for iconic classes, a character would get something more then rest.

Instead of playing an iconic class to remove the negative, what positive could be given to an iconic to make them better then the rest.  This based on the idea that a race has mastered these classes, perfected their training and equipment, so they are better then the norm.

Could it be as simple as saying, that iconic classes get 2 extra action dice?

The iconic specialties, I haven't come up with any thing yet for how to handle those.

While one of greatest tools a designer can use is to flip a situation upside down to solve a problem, I think the method here undermines the intent. The point of Iconic Classes/Specialties is not just to guide PCs to a certain path - rather, it is also here to narrow their options should they stray from that path. This is a stick rather than carrot method - while we normally choose to offer the carrot, in this case, the races are getting distinct, powerful advantages literally unavailable to "normal" characters. Quite plainly, they are better than bog standard humans - and in a balanced system, being better always comes with a cost elsewhere.

The way around these rails is species feats - spend a feat in the right place and you can dodge the iconic class issue plus gain a little something extra on top of it.  But further incentivizing the iconic class path will only further throw the characters out of balance with other options...something we welcome you to do at your own table, but we won't be doing as the base of the game.

[Ferdinand Von Plat]

I thought about writing a long response, but I prefer short answers.

The races in FC aren't D&D races, and me and my gaming buddies are playing D&D. This is why I will change the races, because right now FC does not give me the ability to play an Inugaakalikurit (if you don't need to google this then you are good).
I simply want to play canonic D&D races, with their abilities fitting in with FC.

This also why won't add any weaknesses to the racial abilities, because very few races in D&D have racial drawbacks. And I won't be using races from the FC book, instead I'll create them.

Hmm.  I found this http://bertball.com/wiki/index.php?title=Arctic_Dwarf and assumed it was right for their abilities.

+4 Str +2 Con -2 Dex -2 Cha  Same numbers as an Ogre, so call it 4 points
Small  That's 1 point
Damage Resistance 10/Cold  Maybe 2 based on the species feats that give or increase damage resistance.

Are these guys immune to normal cold (Which is 1d6 subdual) or all cold damage?  If all cold, I don't know.  Blanket immunities are hard to price.  Constructs are immune to lots, but that's an expensive type.  I'm not sure that breaking up a type and pricing it will produce useful numbers.

I see people bringing up this point system a lot, but I can't seem to find anywhere that describes it. Is there a post I'm not seeing or a website with it?

[MugMug]

I see people bringing up this point system a lot, but I can't seem to find anywhere that describes it. Is there a post I'm not seeing or a website with it?

Try here.

Walter

[Mister Andersen]

To put it another way, you want to play something wacky, play it for Roleplaying reasons so you can earn those missing AD back.

Is it that you start the game with 2 less action dice, or thatyour starting action dice are reduced by 2?

Most drawbacks are supposed be at least somewhat unappealing...

So does that mean thatyour starting action dice are reduced by 2, not that you just play with 2 less AD, if you don't take an iconic class?