Fantasy Craft Q&A Thread!

[Crafty_Alex]

How does this interact with a sage taking Path of Magic 1, and then Subtle and Quick to Anger?

Arg. Text for stacking Subtle and Quick to Anger is missing - forgot you could get it from a path. Same principle as stacking 2 Path of the Crucible (or any two identical 'caster-starter abilities'): it gives you an extra Spellcasting feat, not Circle of Power. That correction should resolve all of your questions.

Ah. I had missed that. Will add to the list.

[Crafty_Alex]

Neither of these benefits are a feat though. I'm asking whether gaining the same benefit from two sources (speciality and feat) grants any further benefit.

Upon examination, one grants Intimidate->Spellcasting, and another grants Spellcasting->Intimidate. Can this set up a recursive loop that grants max ranks in both for the cost of 1 skill point? [/blatant powergaming]

Absolutely not. The stacked ability nets zero effect in this case.

[Crafty_Alex]

Errr, no, I can't see that working.
It does give the very minor benefit that you can do it either way, which might be useful if your multiclassing and don't have both skills on all your lists.

There is that

[Daedalus]

(This would be more something for errata if I were more sure about it)

Looking at Sage, I was wondering, the Cross-Training ability lists under priest "Acolyte and path of the devoted (1 Step)" as the first choice, the placement of the (1 step) seems to tie it to Path of the Devoted which would give the ritual weapon, the first step of an alignments path and then another step.

I guess my question is- is that right? Seems a bit powerful for one cross-training choice (about 2 1/2 feats, right?)

My thought is that Acolyte was changed to include the 1st step and Path of the Devoted was originally granted at 1st & 3rd, so this would have given you the equivalent of Acolyte as presently written, then letting you take Path to gain a second step (or the first in a new path).

You are correct - this is a typo, based on a earlier iteration of the Priest which had path of the devoted and the weapon benefit of acolyte split from each other. A sage using Cross-Training to take Acolyte should only receive that ability, not that ability + an additional step on a Path.

So...is the Acolyte(4) and Path of the Devoted( 8 ) still available for Sages?  I guess at that point they wouldn't be casting spells "on their own" as opposed to through a deity.  Is it still possible through this to gain Circle of Magic I, or is this interpretation wrong?

[Crafty_Pat]

So...is the Acolyte(4) and Path of the Devoted( 8 ) still available for Sages?  I guess at that point they wouldn't be casting spells "on their own" as opposed to through a deity.  Is it still possible through this to gain Circle of Magic I, or is this interpretation wrong?

I don't see what you're doing with the parentheticals there but acolyte and path of the devoted are both still available through the Sage's cross-training ability. This does not grant arcane spellcasting but divine spellcasting, which doesn't (generally) require spell points. Should the Path of Magic be available in the campaign (a BIG and very important if), you could choose that to gain arcane spellcasting granted by a divine agency, which would use spell points (but still wouldn't grant you circle of power, as Path of Magic I grants raw spell points).

[Agent 333]

So...is the Acolyte(4) and Path of the Devoted( 8 ) still available for Sages?  I guess at that point they wouldn't be casting spells "on their own" as opposed to through a deity.  Is it still possible through this to gain Circle of Magic I, or is this interpretation wrong?

I don't see what you're doing with the parentheticals there but acolyte and path of the devoted are both still available through the Sage's cross-training ability. This does not grant arcane spellcasting but divine spellcasting, which doesn't (generally) require spell points. Should the Path of Magic be available in the campaign (a BIG and very important if), you could choose that to gain arcane spellcasting granted by a divine agency, which would use spell points (but still wouldn't grant you circle of power, as Path of Magic I grants raw spell points).

Ah, but Path of Magic II does give you Circle of Power I. And I believe that the parenthesis are supposed to be the level you take the abilities...

[tenebrae]

How does this interact with a sage taking Path of Magic 1, and then Subtle and Quick to Anger?

Arg. Text for stacking Subtle and Quick to Anger is missing - forgot you could get it from a path. Same principle as stacking 2 Path of the Crucible (or any two identical 'caster-starter abilities'): it gives you an extra Spellcasting feat, not Circle of Power. That correction should resolve all of your questions.

Ah. I had missed that. Will add to the list.

Hmm. If this is true, and gaining SaQtA twice grants an additional Spellcasting feat, wouldn't every Mage want to take Blessed (Path of Magic) for +4 SP and the choice of another Spellcasting feat. Effectively, as long as they intended to ever take at least one spellcasting feat, they can get an extra +1 to spell DCs and +4 SP from it. (All assuming the Miracles quality is in effect, and that an Alignment that grants Magic exists, of course).

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

The Many-Armed (p. 103) gives you rules for having six limbs, but neither Unborn nor Rootwalkers have rules for having four limbs.  I'm confused as to why the huge jump, and why Roowalkers (who are all portrayed as having, and implied to have in the flavor text, four arms) have no natural Four-Armed ability.

[tenebrae]

The four limbs that Rootwalkers are described as usually having includes two legs.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

There is also a Many-Legged feat on the same page that implies normal Rootwalkers only have 2.

[Morgenstern]

Hmm. If this is true, and gaining SaQtA twice grants an additional Spellcasting feat, wouldn't every Mage want to take Blessed (Path of Magic) for +4 SP and the choice of another Spellcasting feat. Effectively, as long as they intended to ever take at least one spellcasting feat, they can get an extra +1 to spell DCs and +4 SP from it. (All assuming the Miracles quality is in effect, and that an Alignment that grants Magic exists, of course).

Well, grabing it by multiclassing is out since by leaving the Mage class to grab it they are losing the Mage's 2 SP per level for that career level, meaning they've gained only a net 2 SP and a spellcasting feat for the 'privileges' of running forever 1 level late when looking at Circle of Power, Arcane Might I, Spell Secrets, Arcane Wellspring, and Master of Magic AND locking themselves out of the last level of Mage which included the same bonus Spellcasting feat plus Arcane Wellspring II (which blows a measly 2 SP away)... that had better be a pretty awesome feat you're tryin' to jump ahead to .

That said, having an option that grants itself + even slightly more is always at risk of some sort of recursive loop antics. Path of Magic I costs a Spellcasting feat (Blessed) but grants more than a feat (either a butch class ability + two levels worth of spell points or much more importantly a feat of the same tree as used to acquire it + 2 levels worth of spellpoints). Path of Magic II never runs into this because it costs a class ability (and several levels of comitment to the priest or paladin class), not a feat. It's not too hard to disarm this by delaying the spell points components of Path of magic to step II (like maybe 5 per step for each step after the first - giving the same final result of 20 SP).

What actually bugs me is how baddly Blessed (path of magic) trumps The Gift even with a spell point fix - basically the same number of spells, plus unlimited use of those spell vs. a number of uses equal to your startig action dice. This might just be the way of things in a magical world with a god of magic, but it doesn't sit quite right.

[Morgenstern]

The Many-Armed (p. 103) gives you rules for having six limbs, but neither Unborn nor Rootwalkers have rules for having four limbs.  I'm confused as to why the huge jump, and why Roowalkers (who are all portrayed as having, and implied to have in the flavor text, four arms) have no natural Four-Armed ability.

Basically the benefits you could extrapolate for four limbs looking at the multi-armed feat aren't worth a feat in and of themselves, but aren't trivial enough to be free. What it amounts to is the stock rootwalker may have 4 manipulator limbs, but isn't so multi-dexterous that they need a mechanical benefit for it. They can do the same things in single round that a character with two arms does. It's a lot like how SC2.0 and Mastercraft don't give you an extra attack per round for holding a weapon in each hand. Likewise a character could have more than 2 legs and not be automatically granted the benefits of Many-legged. The feat implies both physical form and an additional degree of coordination to leverage that form.

Perhaps at some point there will be a "Four-Armed" feat that has scaled down Many-Armed benefits paired up with some additional goodie to make it featworthy. Rootwalkers would almost certainly be eligable for it, but not granted it for free.

[Mister Andersen]

What actually bugs me is how baddly Blessed (path of magic) trumps The Gift even with a spell point fix - basically the same number of spells, plus unlimited use of those spell vs. a number of uses equal to your startig action dice. This might just be the way of things in a magical world with a god of magic, but it doesn't sit quite right.

Some things to consider:

The Gift is level 1 only (not really necessary I think) but expressly doesn't require a campaign quality and grants auto-success with the selected spells.

Blessed OTOH not only requires a campaign quality (Miracles) but also an alignment (thus opening up the character to a number of hostile in-game mechanics and eating up an Interest slot) as well as requiring investment of skill ranks in Spellcasting because you have to roll every time you cast, which of course brings with it the risk of not just failure but spectacular failure.

[spinningdice]

Where are people getting that duplicating Subtle & Quick to Anger grants you a bonus feat from?

[Agent 333]

Where are people getting that duplicating Subtle & Quick to Anger grants you a bonus feat from?

Morg's comment on the previous page, and Pat confirming that it should probably be errata.