Aeropulp

[TheAuldGrump]

Heh, the man who engineered the Franco-Prussian war as a means to unify the Germanies was anything but a dove!

Part of the difference in opinion was over Bismark wanting consolidate the newly formed nation state before beginning any foreign adventuring. Wilhelm was caught up in his grand vision of expansion. (My mind insists on drawing parallels with a certain recent POTUS....  ) Bismark, at his core, was much more of a realist. (As well as being possibly the best example of eminence grise since Richelieu.)

Something else to bear in mind is that the Germanies use of the term Socialist was rather different than what Marx had intended - and that the German Socialist movements were what eventually developed into the Nazi party. (Being much closer to what the peasants of both the Germanies and France strove for than what Lenin instituted.) Bismark saw them as insoluble, something that would remain a threat to the consolidation of the Germanies for generations to come. The fact that mass executions would likely produce  a similarly insoluble core (in much the same fashion of the destruction of previous peasant revolts) seems to have escaped him. His fear was an actual revolution, or overturning of the empire.

Of the two, Bismark was the more competent, but also the more evil. A very nice example of what D&D would term Lawful Evil.

The Auld Grump

[Valentina]

Regarding Aeropulp then; must it be props?
I love howling turbines and shattering skies and the woosh-shriek of missiles.

[Bill Whitmore]

Regarding Aeropulp then; must it be props?
I love howling turbines and shattering skies and the woosh-shriek of missiles.

Hmm, I always liked that 2 pilots dueling it out can fly close enough to see each other as one sneers and the other gives a thumbs up.  I wouldn't mind missiles if they were lousy enough that any pilot worth his salt could avoid them but the masses of generally unskilled pilots could be caught with them.  To bring down the really good pilots, you still need to get close enough for a good ol' fashioned dogfight.

As far as turbines, I think I prefer props, but both could work.  This is pulp we are talking about, so a prop plane could probably keep pace anyways.  Maybe you can do a pros/cons approach where props are better for dogfights and operational range while turbines are better for speed and keeping distance for long range missile use.  Of course, the props guys would think the turbine pilots were yellow-bellied cowards who turn and run at the first sign of danger...

[Mister Andersen]

No missles: the measure of an ace is the ability to dodge hot lead traded at close range while avoiding flak from ground positions. Turbine/jet engines would be rare, the mark of affiliation with cutting edge science or outright villainy

[OverNinja]

No missles: the measure of an ace is the ability to dodge hot lead traded at close range while avoiding flak from ground positions.

Even today the Israelis value gun kills more than missile kills.

Missiles would have to be even less reliable than the ones used in Vietnam.
They're not named MISSiles for nothing. Or "bidon" as the Israelis call them.

[Valentina]

Hmm.
There's an old (dating myself, gads) air combat manga called Area 88 that had an emphasis on dogfighting despite being set in the late 70's to the mid 80's.
Caveat being for that while missile combat was common, the pilots in question favored guns as they were mercenaries and as such paid for their munitions. So while there was switchology and long shots, 90% of the kills were made in spitwad range as the realities of sometimes ad hoc repairs and shoestring budgets meant that hangar queens were out of favor over Phantoms, Drakkens, Crusaders, A-4 whatever-they're-calleds and Sky Raiders.
Nothing trans-mach, no over-horizon kills, no AWACS, no real ECM. Just talent and luck and burning death.

[Bill Whitmore]

Caveat being for that while missile combat was common, the pilots in question favored guns as they were mercenaries and such paid for their munitions.

Make missile loadouts require Reputation/Net Worth expenditures and you'll see the same thing happen on the tabletop games.

[Valentina]

Addendum:
IMHO A88 was remarkable as well for it's even handed treatment of soldiers and foriegners as well.
For example American Viet Nam veteran Mickey Simon is depicted as initially appearing to be typically gung-ho and combat fearlss. In time it unravels that he's being internally torn by his love of country, of being a proper "American Warrior" and of the comraderie of fellow combat pilots with how it destroyed his marriage and how increasingly he's becoming a ghost who wanders around airfields waiting for the horns to blow and the engines to scream.

Conversely highly bishonen and very emo protagonist Shin Kazama comes to treasure that same trust forged in combat and what little it means to be virulently anti-war and anti-soldiers from a safe distance. In time he realizes that the same traits that made him an excellent civilian pilot make him a fantastic killer. That not only is violence the only form of salvation in "the devil's skies" but that even if he survives to return home he'll have to somehow return to the accepted kind of passivity civilian life demands. In a scene from the original manga he accidentally intrudes on a bank robbery and as the situation escalates he ends up killing/disabling the robbing crew starting only with a pocket knife.

Uh, anyway A88's probably too grim for AeroPulp. So I'm not really sure of the relevance of what I've typed.
>.>
It's late. Excuse deployed.

[Krensky]

Caveat being for that while missile combat was common, the pilots in question favored guns as they were mercenaries and such paid for their munitions.

Make missile loadouts require Reputation/Net Worth expenditures and you'll see the same thing happen on the tabletop games.

Or just use Cash & Carry rules. Missiles are expensive. A barrel of 20mm API is cheap in comparison.

[Krensky]

Uh, anyway A88's probably too grim for AeroPulp. So I'm not really sure of the relevance of what I've typed.

Area 88 is a good show, a great manga, and a mediocre SNES game.

The world and all it's conventions are probably WAY too dark for aeropulp, the setup for the main character is almost tailor made for a dark take on the genre, however.

Normal, happy civilian pilot just out of aviation school, dating the beautiful daughter of an airline president is tricked into signing a three year contract with a mercenary company by his jealous and over competitive childhood 'friend' so he can steal his job and girl. Driven to save as much money as possible so he can buy his contract out early. Great hook for a character.

[MilitiaJim]

...the accepted kind of passivity civilian life demands.

Disgusting but true.

While the 70s are a bit late for pulp, the plot point of "friend signs you up for merc wing" does sound pretty good.

Make missile loadouts require Reputation/Net Worth expenditures and you'll see the same thing happen on the tabletop games.

I wouldn't say Rep/NW, but something underwhelming for their caliber, or a low enough DC that most Special Characters are barely hindered by their presence.

They did have radio controlled bombs as early as WWII, so a missile controlled by a WSO is not out of the question.

[Krensky]

I'd say that Shin has a Longterm Mission and a Debt subplot, and the campaign has to use Cash & Carry.

[OverNinja]

They did have radio controlled bombs as early as WWII, so a missile controlled by a WSO is not out of the question.

And like the first generation of ATGMs hitting moving targets would be very difficult.

[MilitiaJim]

You might want to check out books like the G-8 series and the Biggles books and film. Also the Enemy Ace Comics from DC.

Daring aviators, sinister Foreign Noblemen aces, Zeps, secret missions to destroy Giant Artilery guns and Sonic Deathray machines.  

So if the US government hadn't intervened in WWI, the war would have been grimly going on in 1920s.  

When did the first monowing planes enter production?  Would you see American built aircraft starting to show up on both sides, bought with precious metals?  That would open the front down in Africa and South America, to get the gems and gold to trade to the Americans for planes and guns.  What about the Turks?  Hmm...

I would be very happy to see the Bolsheviks lose in Russia.  The Russians still would probably sue for peace, but it might not be so disadvantageous.  

[MilitiaJim]

They did have radio controlled bombs as early as WWII, so a missile controlled by a WSO is not out of the question.

And like the first generation of ATGMs hitting moving targets would be very difficult.

The early Sparrow missiles had a dismal record, and the early Sidewinder was better, but not by much.

The Germans did have decent success using rockets against American bomber formations.  Though shooting a zepplin you are trying to capture with a rocket would be a stunningly bad idea.  When did they start using helium in the zepplins?  Filling the balloon of made of rocket fuel with more rocket fuel is just asking for trouble.