Aeropulp

[Krensky]

They did have radio controlled bombs as early as WWII, so a missile controlled by a WSO is not out of the question.

And like the first generation of ATGMs hitting moving targets would be very difficult.

Missiles and rockets would be good choices for hitting airships and ground targets. Although the aerial torpedo was the preferred anti-shipping weapon in Crimson Skies. If I remember right, in Crimson Skies, rockets and missiles were typically useless against a fighter whose pilot had any skill at all, unless you were using beeper/seekers.

[Txabier_Arrizotegui]

Spain with fascists is also overdoing it... Franco was inspired by Hilter, not Mussolinni, and his fascism came to light late in the war, at first he was a "monarchist" (but always a swine). A civil war where the people (Anarchists) are demanding reforms from the Monarchy is a more plausible scenario (seeing that the Bolchevik revolution has not triumphed yet, thus giving no real basis for a "communist"block helping in the war).

Franco was inspired by neither. Franco made the Carlists and Falange  play nice and led them and the Army. The fascism in Spain comes from the Falange, who were inspired by Mussoili. A civil war between Nationalists (led by Primo de Rivera and his son), the Carlists (led by Manuel Fal Conde and Javier de Borbón), and the Popular Front is perfectly workable, and possible. If you insist on Franco being involved, he'd be a Nationalist General. Or better yet, have him die in the early fighting and occasionally include a news story stating that General Franco is still dead.

You are talking to a great grand and grandson of combatants there. WE know the war. Franco's falange did not show it's true fascistic colours until it had won half the contry, adn you seem to forget that Spain was the testing grounds of many German weapons and tactics... So, the relationship with Hiltler's brand of "fascism" (never mind it was the idiot Mussolinni who came up with it) was what created the Franquist abomination that came later in the war. For while he was in exile in Africa, he was a "royalist".

Still your take on his early dead suits me quite fine (if only...).
 

Besides I'm seeing a strong "anti-commie" sentiment here and yet another "purely imperialist" setting where only the western powers are the good guys is just that... yet another version of the same, revised thing.

On one hand, welcome to the genre. Fascists and Communists are the villains in pulp. Deal with it.
On the other, just because the Bolsheviks lost, doesn't stop communism. Kerensky and the Russian Federation are Socialist, there are socialist and communist revolutionaries throughout Europe, Mao is still handing out his little red cookbook. And where did I paint anyone as a good guy?

I know pulp and know how it works, no need to deal with it. My point was making it STRICTLY the same, makes for yet another version and not "reinventing" anything. Sure, they are there Evil Reds, sure they have their own agenda... But so did the U.S., even with it's "incipient industrial" power (let me remember you that the U.S. was the first and most badly hit by the Great Depression, and it was expansionistic ever since the Monroe affair in the late 19th Century... Latin America had its share of turmoil, but was mainly due to revolutionary and pre-revolutionary issues).

My take would be that the U.S. and the Texan League of Free States (which include Lousiana, Florida, NUEVO Mexico, Arizona and HALF of California) would also have their devious politicians and business barons  with their own nefarious motives and spurious claims to power.

You know, the usual "reds or blues, extremes mean dues" where the players would have to fight "for the people" (not as in a "obviously political" vent), but for their 'hoods, islands, and/or hometowns.

Give them the sense of wonder that even with a world on the brink of absolute chaos, with enemies hidden in every corner, they can fight for friends and family, trying to make their immediate surroundings as safe as they possibly can... until the next mad scientist or military tyrant comes along.

[Txabier_Arrizotegui]

Turbine/jet engines would be rare, the mark of affiliation with cutting edge science or outright villainy

EXACTLY!

Still, "missiles" is a NONER. Rockets, maybe... but missiles is definitely too high tech for this kind of setting.

I am more prone to a horrific "electro-lash", which needs the ace to be dangerously close (say, 30 feet) to the plane he's attacking with his bolts, than equiping a missile.

Missiles and rockets would be good choices for hitting airships and ground targets. Although the aerial torpedo was the preferred anti-shipping weapon in Crimson Skies. If I remember right, in Crimson Skies, rockets and missiles were typically useless against a fighter whose pilot had any skill at all, unless you were using beeper/seekers.

Yep, so it was. A rocket once fired had only as much chance to hit as the enemy pilot was a klutz. Rockets (and later, missiles) were only effective against bigger or immobile targets.

So you had to plan your payload to be the most effctive according to mission you were attempting to complete.

[MilitiaJim]

I want my mad scientist friend to build me some capacitors that are charged with static electricity that I can discharge through a Tesla coil mounted between my two pusher props.

It also could be an anti-rocket defense for zepplins.

[Txabier_Arrizotegui]

Exactly, bis!

The "Lightning Wall" would provide brief but effective protection against rocket salvoes for the big blimps... Yet it would ruin everyone's hairdo.

Now you know why the mad scientists all have frizzy hair! 

[Krensky]

Franco was inspired by neither. Franco made the Carlists and Falange  play nice and led them and the Army. The fascism in Spain comes from the Falange, who were inspired by Mussoili. A civil war between Nationalists (led by Primo de Rivera and his son), the Carlists (led by Manuel Fal Conde and Javier de Borbón), and the Popular Front is perfectly workable, and possible. If you insist on Franco being involved, he'd be a Nationalist General. Or better yet, have him die in the early fighting and occasionally include a news story stating that General Franco is still dead.

You are talking to a great grand and grandson of combatants there. WE know the war. Franco's falange did not show it's true fascistic colours until it had won half the contry, adn you seem to forget that Spain was the testing grounds of many German weapons and tactics... So, the relationship with Hiltler's brand of "fascism" (never mind it was the idiot Mussolinni who came up with it) was what created the Franquist abomination that came later in the war. For while he was in exile in Africa, he was a "royalist".

And? The Falange Española was founded by José Antonio Primo de Rivera, inspired by Mussolini and his Fascists. It quickly merged with the Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional-Sindicalista. Pretty much the only real difference between Fascism and Falangism was that Fascism was corporatist and Falangism was national-syndicatist (probably not a word). It was fascist, even if no one noticed. Once the war breaks out, Hitler sends the Legion Condor and nifty new toys, and the USSR sends Bolsheviks and generally crappy toys. Neither of these happen in this what-if since Hitler is in art school somewhere and Kerensky has more important things to deal with at home and wouldn't want to get involved anyway.

Still your take on his early dead suits me quite fine (if only...).
 

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still valiantly holding on in his fight to remain dead.

I know pulp and know how it works, no need to deal with it. My point was making it STRICTLY the same, makes for yet another version and not "reinventing" anything.

What do you mean by strictly the same? There's a massive amount of divergence here. I'm not being snide, I think there's a language issue that leaves me not following your argument about things being the same.

Sure, they are there Evil Reds, sure they have their own agenda...

There are no Reds as the term is usually used. The Bolshevik movement effectively died when the Russian military and police burned their office to the ground, with them still inside.

But so did the U.S., even with it's "incipient industrial" power (let me remember you that the U.S. was the first and most badly hit by the Great Depression, and it was expansionistic ever since the Monroe affair in the late 19th Century... Latin America had its share of turmoil, but was mainly due to revolutionary and pre-revolutionary issues).

If you mean the Manifest Destiny speech, that was in 1845. If you mean the Spanish-American War, that was in the late 1890s. I would suggest, with a stronger stance on the Monroe Doctrine and Manifest Destiny, most of Mexico and Spain's Caribbean possessions would be US possessions either de facto or de jure by 1935.

My take would be that the U.S. and the Texan League of Free States (which include Lousiana, Florida, NUEVO Mexico, Arizona and HALF of California) would also have their devious politicians and business barons  with their own nefarious motives and spurious claims to power.

Completely implausible. Especially since the (white) people who 'founded' the Republic of Texas asked to be annexed. They whole damn point of the "Texas Revolution" was to seize the land they illegally settled and join the USA.

You know, the usual "reds or blues, extremes mean dues" where the players would have to fight "for the people" (not as in a "obviously political" vent), but for their 'hoods, islands, and/or hometowns.

Give them the sense of wonder that even with a world on the brink of absolute chaos, with enemies hidden in every corner, they can fight for friends and family, trying to make their immediate surroundings as safe as they possibly can... until the next mad scientist or military tyrant comes along.

I still don't understand how actually describing a plausible alternate world that not only creates that world, but also prevents WWII, the Post-War Period and the Cold War detracts from that.

[MilitiaJim]

Sure, they are there Evil Reds, sure they have their own agenda...

There are no Reds as the term is usually used. The Bolshevik movement effectively died when the Russian military and police burned their office to the ground, with them still inside.

And it's a bloody, bloody shame that Marx's book of idiot fables didn't die with them.

Commies, and every other flavor of idiocy that follows Marx's damn book, are deservedly portrayed as villains.  Especially in the US, and thrice do they deserve every invective cast in their direction.  All flavors of Marxism stand against freedom and deserve any and all abuse that can be devised by human malice.

Back to the topic at hand:  What about a Tesla rocket that zarks things as it zips past?

Another point:  A plane wouldn't build up nearly as much of a charge as a zepplin that lurks forever in the skies.  How big would these capacitors big?  How much would they weigh?  Zepplins can lift a lot, but there are limits.  Given their relative frailty and expense I don't think they would really be targets for destruction as much as capture.

[Txabier_Arrizotegui]

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still valiantly holding on in his fight to remain dead

Look, man, you are unnecessarily being an arse.. I KNOW that and your tone lets me see you can't take suggestions, hints or criticism, so... You'll have to excuse me if I pay no mind to your views and how we are "slanting" the balance towards the same silly "US. good, Socialism bad" argument that's nothing more than regugitated vitriol (@MilitiaJim: France and modern day Spain still have a socialist-oriented system and it was only when the "freedom" of the democratic free market took them by force that inegality and white-collar crime peek... just so you don't call versions of socialism "idiotic". Communism is unattainable and therefore idiotic, socialism is just EQUAL OPPORTINUTY, EQUAL RIGHTS.)

But as this was  never intended as a History lesson, just suggestions about how to avoid certain things that are EXACTLY the same you can watch in an era newsreel or listen to on a radioplay, I'm sticking to my just working out a possible setting that differs from everything else we've read or played so far.

[MilitiaJim]

Socialism is slavery.  Worse than chattel slavery, at least from that you can flee.  Being in bondage is a horrible thing, even worse when it is an impersonal bureaucracy.  (We will ignore BDSM, that you volunteer for.)  I've lived within, or worked for, bureaucracies my entire life and they are things of EVIL.  Perhaps a necessary evil, but evil that must be watched and culled without remorse, and probably with fire.

Back to our alternate history:  The U.S. gov't stays neutral.  Various groups from the U.S. form companies that fight for the Central Powers as well as the Triple Entente.  Does the Bolshevik revolution succeed or fail?  A point of note, not of true concern.  Either way, the Russians bow out, leaving the Germans to concentrate on the Western front.  What of the Irish?  Could an Irish rebellion succeed without the U.S. contributing combat formations to the Western Front?

[Txabier_Arrizotegui]

Another point:  A plane wouldn't build up nearly as much of a charge as a zepplin that lurks forever in the skies.  How big would these capacitors big?  How much would they weigh?  Zepplins can lift a lot, but there are limits.  Given their relative frailty and expense I don't think they would really be targets for destruction as much as capture.

That's the other interesting aspect of it... Boarding actions. We can assume it's the planes that knock out the gun batteries and escort planes, but it's the autogyros the ones that carry the shocktroops that take over the zep.

As far as "believeable" capacitors, we can go to good ol' Physics and apply the knowledge that a capacitor(condenser) is really a temporary battery and it can be linked with others to create a capacitor network that feeds an amplifier (the real weapon) for use on demand.

So, there wouldn't be too much need to give the machines the ability to generate their own electricity (although some clever tinkering with the propellers might also help juice-up some power coils), but they can syphon it from the ambient static electricity, and store it on the capacitors lined on the sides of the zep (great ablative armor too, as the could be modular, ceramic ones) which can be forced to liberate part of the charge through the grid, by inducing a ripple current (not precisely as the TRUE one, but you get my meaning).... and little else. For this particular zeps, given the hypothetical weight of their amplifier and capacitor grid, would use most of the available weight capacity in their weapons systems alone, thus making them the "gunboats" of blimp fleets.

I would venture the thought that the overall weight of a capacitor of this sort could be about 15 kilograms, and the total number of capacitor depending of the dirigible's size. What I am more worried about is the amplifier and node (the lightning-gun or guns if you go totally badarse on some poor aerojock cadre). That could very well be in the 10-50 tons range (or more!) depending of just how much zap! you want your toys to have.

[MilitiaJim]

10 tons for a Tesla coil?  That seems a bit high.  Definitely high enough that no plane could take off with one.  They could come in many sizes from the 500lb/225kg, heavy aircraft Tesla with a 50ft/17m range up to the massive seven ton coil that can smoke a rocket, and mess up a fighter a kilometer away.

[Krensky]

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still valiantly holding on in his fight to remain dead

Look, man, you are unnecessarily being an arse.. I KNOW that and your tone lets me see you can't take suggestions, hints or criticism, so...

First, take a deep breath. You're sort of new here, so you may not have noticed my jocular nature or caught on that if something I wrote offended you, you're probably missing the punchline.

That line is a joke. A rather famous one. It has to do with the weeks of coverage here leading up to his death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalissimo_Francisco_Franco_is_still_dead

Sadly I can't find video of Chevy Chase using it, only of Franco's obituary on SNL.

You'll have to excuse me if I pay no mind to your views and how we are "slanting" the balance towards the same silly "US. good, Socialism bad" argument that's nothing more than regugitated vitriol (@MilitiaJim: France and modern day Spain still have a socialist-oriented system and it was only when the "freedom" of the democratic free market took them by force that inegality and white-collar crime peek... just so you don't call versions of socialism "idiotic". Communism is unattainable and therefore idiotic, socialism is just EQUAL OPPORTINUTY, EQUAL RIGHTS.)

Ignore or heed me, I really don't care. But you should check you assumptions. Nowhere did I slant that US good, Socialism bad. I will, however, suggest that Soviet or Marxist-Leninist style Communism is bad from a world building view considering the desired genre, since it pushes it more into a bad Cold War movie serial rather then a interwar pulp. By removing the Bolsheviks, Communism never really gets off the ground, which diminishes the influence of fascism, and allows us to better stabilize the world as being post WWI, but without the impending storm of WWII.

As for the real world, I never discussed my political views, in this thread. I don't consider them relevant and only likely to start arguments and internet drama. It's also easier because they're complicated and laying them out takes a lot of typing. To give a massive over simplification I'm well to the left of Jim, although perhaps not as far left as you, I'm not interested (or can read enough Spanish) to follow Mexican politics fully enough to guess your party.

It's not helped that you guys have so many of them either. Two big parties that no one really likes is far superior, and even that gets too confusing at times.

But as this was  never intended as a History lesson, just suggestions about how to avoid certain things that are EXACTLY the same you can watch in an era newsreel or listen to on a radioplay, I'm sticking to my just working out a possible setting that differs from everything else we've read or played so far.

Well, based on what I've read, truly innovative settings for an RPG fail. Most people want something familiar, like what they'd see in a periods serial, read in a original pulp magazine, or hear in a period radio play. Most "innovative" game settings are just tweaks, amalgamations, pastiches, inversions or some combination of existing ones.

That said, what exactly are you proposing? Your suggestion on the Texas free state requires massive changes to the nature and personality of Austin and Houston, or Polk and somehow preventing Mexico from suppressing the Texans and reclaiming control of Texas.

[Krensky]

Back to our alternate history:  The U.S. gov't stays neutral.  Various groups from the U.S. form companies that fight for the Central Powers as well as the Triple Entente.  Does the Bolshevik revolution succeed or fail?  A point of note, not of true concern.  Either way, the Russians bow out, leaving the Germans to concentrate on the Western front.  What of the Irish?  Could an Irish rebellion succeed without the U.S. contributing combat formations to the Western Front?

Well, the Easter Rising took place before the Russians bowed out in the real world, and the reasons behind it's timing had nothing to do with anything other then Britian being in a war. Really, it's such a mishmash a better approach would be to decide whether we want a wholly independent Éire, have it part of the Commonwealth, part of the U, or the split we had in the real world and massage events to get that outcome. The Home Rule Act of 1914 would have been suspended the whole war though. Basically it largely breaks on the crown's choices, how strong the Unionists are, and ho impatient the Irish people get.

Whether the Bolsheviks succeed or fail is actually important, since one of their central promises was to withdraw from the war. Kerensky favored staying in it. Of course, he still may have had to pull out to keep the Russian citizenry happy.

[Txabier_Arrizotegui]

No, no, no! No party, I've got none!  

Then, if the U.S. of A never came to be, because of the Secession actually taking place, there's no need to worry about Mexico "wanting it back". The "Texas range" could have actually become a full-fledge nation that was strong enough to fend of any serious threat to their nation, and Mexico's War of Reforma (first among ourselves and the against the French) was all we really needed to bang that final nail on the Texas coffin, as we concentrated on not loosing any more territory and try to establish any semblance of organized governement. So, my suggested Texan Free League would really have no problems from reclaimers.

Then, by trying to go outside the usual, you are not risking a confused audience, but you need to make the setting clever and attractive to get their attention... I mean, never did we suggest that this should be played with no dice, brass tokens and tinfoil hats because it was so innovative a game, did we?

The fact that there is no social pressure or historical inertia to lead upto WWII, does not mean chaos due to greed and the fighting for control over the Amazon basin isn't brewing it, if slightly off-center.

[Txabier_Arrizotegui]

10 tons for a Tesla coil?  That seems a bit high.  Definitely high enough that no plane could take off with one.  They could come in many sizes from the 500lb/225kg, heavy aircraft Tesla with a 50ft/17m range up to the massive seven ton coil that can smoke a rocket, and mess up a fighter a kilometer away.

I was referring to the BIG ones on the blimps. Surely a smaller version could be used on a plane.

Still the 1 klick range seems like pushing it. We are shooting lightining. If we want to hit something, we need not to disperse or devieate, so a jock would need to stay close to his target to zap it... and those damned rearguns are hitting us hard, cap'n!

But, as ripple current creates heat within the capacitors... it could be focused... into the dreaded HEAT BEAM! That can go for 1 klick without dispersing too much, and singe the crew of a bomber!