I Ought To Be Ashamed....

[Aziraphale]

Ah, Shadowrun - interesting setting, terrible rules.

Never has one world convinced so many people to try to shoehorn a great setting into some other, better ruleset.    Also probably the #1 reason anyone picked up D20 Modern.

Ummm 

The Auld Grump, yep.

Funnily enough this is how i ended up with Spycraft. I wandered in to get the d20 modern book to try to adapt Shadowrun. I ended up leaving the store SC2.0 in hand.  Life works in weird ways eh?

[VisualStatic]

Ah, Shadowrun - interesting setting, terrible rules.

Never has one world convinced so many people to try to shoehorn a great setting into some other, better ruleset.    Also probably the #1 reason anyone picked up D20 Modern.

Ummm 

The Auld Grump, yep.

Funnily enough this is how i ended up with Spycraft. I wandered in to get the d20 modern book to try to adapt Shadowrun. I ended up leaving the store SC2.0 in hand.  Life works in weird ways eh?

Which is why I can't wait for Shatterpunk.

[glimmerrat]

As a Shadowrun fan, the idea of D20 Shadowrun to me is utterly abhorrent, and i *like* D20. Especially the idea of anything to do with that piece of shit D20 modern. Seriously, what is the issue with the SR rules? They aren't complicated and they're not difficult to balance - it's like with Spycraft. If someone handed me a character with 2 abilities at 18 and not a lot else, i'd simply say 'sorry, no'. As long as you set simple limits then balance is easy, it's jus a matter of using common sense.

SR4 gets a lot of flak, and yet it's so much more streamlined than SR3. Everything is faster, simpler and a lot more cinematic. If it was that bad, why is SR4 doing so well? I just don't understand what people's problem is. It seems to me that too many people are bashing Shadowrun based on the clunky dinosaur that was SR3, without even trying SR4.

[Krensky]

Well, in my case, I never liked Shadowrun because I was a fan of and running CP2020 and never saw why it needed magic or elves or whatever and because Pondsmith's dystopia seemed plausible, where SR was completely fantastical.

To this day, if someone wanted a cyberpunk game reminiscent of the 1980s and 1990s trope, I'd pull my CP2020, CyberGeneration, Mekton Z and Bubblegum Crisis books out before turning to SR or d20. One of these days I need to finish writing the CyberGen mutations up as cyberware for Starblade Battalion Mekton.

As for games I'm ashamed of... The closest would probably be Maid (the first Japanese tabletop RPG translated into English), which I bought as a curiosity for my collection. I also wanted to support the translators following project which is far more serious. It's a funny read, and a well designed game, but I doubt it's playable in normal circumstances. It's just too weird, even for the otakus in my club. The tables (much like Toon!, you can run an entire adventure from the random event tables) are funny though.

I still wish TSR had accepted Group SNE's Forcelia (Lodoss War, Crystania, Rune Soldier) as a setting when it was solicited.

[Bill Whitmore]

The one game I played and really like that tends to have people looking at me funny was Metascape.  I still have the box set of that game around and the d16 die is still in my dice bucket.  If I could ever get the players together, I would probably play it again.  Unfortunately, some of my friends never liked needing to have their calculators around to figure out their dice roll totals.

Hmm, now that has me thinking.  Maybe I can convert it to Spycraft...

[glimmerrat]

Krensky - in all honesty, i think Shadowrun ceased to be cyberpunk a long time ago.

[Krensky]

Krensky - in all honesty, i think Shadowrun ceased to be cyberpunk a long time ago.

Since I haven'r looked at it since first edition, fair enough.

[glimmerrat]

I am, however, surprised to find another BGC player in the house... we played an AD Police game that lasted for about 3 years when i was younger.

[Krensky]

I was involved in an alternate history version with Stingray Industries as contractor to the ADP running a Special Response Team, mixing things from the 2030 and 2040 series. Original characters, the only Knight Sabers involved (directly) with the SRT were Nene and Sylia. Lasted for several years, we more or less got up to Red Eyes before things fell apart. Fun times, and the books were great. A lot of soap opera, a lot of philosophy and sci-fi questions (what is human, etc), and a whole lot of ass kicking.

Fun times. I think I still have my campaign notes and hardsuit write ups somewhere.

The BGC game books (all three of them) were some of the best money I've spent on gaming. Like Alex said, Pondsmith's a genius.

[VisualStatic]

As a Shadowrun fan, the idea of D20 Shadowrun to me is utterly abhorrent, and i *like* D20. Especially the idea of anything to do with that piece of shit D20 modern. Seriously, what is the issue with the SR rules? They aren't complicated and they're not difficult to balance - it's like with Spycraft. If someone handed me a character with 2 abilities at 18 and not a lot else, i'd simply say 'sorry, no'. As long as you set simple limits then balance is easy, it's jus a matter of using common sense.

SR4 gets a lot of flak, and yet it's so much more streamlined than SR3. Everything is faster, simpler and a lot more cinematic. If it was that bad, why is SR4 doing so well? I just don't understand what people's problem is. It seems to me that too many people are bashing Shadowrun based on the clunky dinosaur that was SR3, without even trying SR4.

Now this is strictly my opinion, so take it for what you will.

Yes SR4 is more streamline and faster... but to a fault, much like D&D 4th Ed.   

SR3 needed help just like D&D 3.5 did.  But instead of tweaking the parts that need it, they went with overkill and revamped alot that didn't need it or did more then what was needed.  It was oversimplified, after reading through SR4, I knew I'd never play/run it again.

I mostly lay that at the feet of those who took over after FASA let the license go. 

SR was taken over by a few people in the online community that support it, problem is some of those people had a very high level of arrogance when it came to the game and what was right/wrong.

Unlike here, where we have alot of opinions and discussions.  not only with each other but with the Crafty boys themselves.  Although, we may not always agree with what is going on, I've never gotten a feeling of any level of arrogance or I'm right/you're wrong here.

Which is why I"m here, and not still dealing with SR anymore.  SC is a far better system, not just in rules, but the openness and honest opinions that can be found here from the supports and the creators.  The community here is what makes it better for me.

[TheAuldGrump]

Unlike here, where we have alot of opinions and discussions.  not only with each other but with the Crafty boys themselves.  Although, we may not always agree with what is going on, I've never gotten a feeling of any level of arrogance or I'm right/you're wrong here.

Oh nonsense! I'm right, and you know it!

What was the argument about again?

The Auld Grump

[OverNinja]

The BGC game books (all three of them) were some of the best money I've spent on gaming. Like Alex said, Pondsmith's a genius.

Didn't have time to play  as we started a long-time campaign (D&D) when I bought these.

I'm ashamed to admit, I have a pretty large collection of RIFTS. 
Maybe I should start converting that to Spycraft...

[TheAuldGrump]

I got ambushed by my subconscious today.

I brought my books to Wendy's planning to do a little planning for a Fallout campaign. Instead, for reasons that escape me. I thought of the steam powered Buddha miniature by Armorcast that currently graces my painting table. Specifically 'I've got to get a better name for that then 'Steam Powered Buddha''.

My subconscious threw up

Moloch, who delights in the scent of burnt offerings.

There was no pause in thought between the question and the answer - my subconscious already knew the answer.

The critter was always going to be the bad guy, but dayum, didn't that just kick all the plans that I already had in the teeth? Makes it both a nastier and more powerful baddie than I had originally planned. Not, perhaps, original - Fritz Lang used Moloch to describe his dystopian vision of the future in Metropolis. (Possibly the very first steampunk movie - decades before the term 'steampunk' was coined.) Holds together better, too - plenty of research material and cryptic clues to use, perhaps some numerology or a derived sigil marking the furnace of the construct.

Research material that I will need to review - Metropolis, Leviticus, Paradise Lost, Three Books of Occult Philosophy, by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa..

When the Scoobypunk game finally wraps (a year and more later than planned...) I may just pick up with steampunk archaeologists... both in forgotten lands and under the sea. Moloch however will be built in Baltimore (literally 'Temple of Baal' - Ba'al is often synonymous with Moloch in biblical studies.  )

The Auld Grump, who wishes that his subconscious had given him more warning....

[gaghiel42]

I wish they would put the version of Metropolis on DVD that had Queen do the soundtrack.  It was so awesome...

[TheAuldGrump]

Whoops - I don't really know how my above post ended up in 'I Ought to be Ashamed' - though it was embarrassing to discover that my subconscious was running around plotting without the rest of me. I think that I intended it for one of my 'Whining About Scoobypunk' threads... or maybe Odd Sources of Inspiration. Found the thread - oddly enough titled 'What Do You Do With A Steam Powered Buddha' No wonder I couldn't find it.

Sorry about that.  Going by the posting time it wasn't even all that late, in fact pretty darned early. So maybe what I ought to be ashamed about is posting to the wrong thread....

In any event, Scoobypunk really will be winding up in a few weeks, and steampunk archaeologists seems a likely replacement. Still a lighter and fluffier game than WWI, but via Moloch I can add a bass line for plot. Maybe one in four will be a *Bam!* episode, where plot happens in the primary arc.

The Auld Grump, cities turned to salt, weeping angels, dogs and cats living together....