Morg's Springing feat chain

[Morgenstern]

i think this video is a extremely good example of that feat chain.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p310Y0tctr8

Ah, Ong Bok . That movie's influence shows up in the core rules in several places, and again in World on Fire. Parts of Spirit Basics and the checking step trick in WoF are totally from that movie.

There are a couple definite "Ignore rough terrain" and a few "climb at full speed as long as you end you move somewhere flat" bits in that scene. Him rolling around on the table as thugs try to hit him was dripping with Equilibrium Basics. His running across the shoulders of his would-be assailants is doable with no check required as part of Eqilibrium Suupremacy. Otherwise a good Acrobatics roll can do it. Since the whole thing is likely a chase, the 'counts as Chase Feat' aspect could be leveraging other feats.

[Antilles]

Until someone posts some deeply inspiring youtube footage or movie clip something, I'm going to continue to see freeruning as an urban phenomena.

You rang, master?

Admittedly, the movies are mostly clips of people jumping and landing, but there are occasional clips that are "proof of concept", and although the article does mention that rural parkour is somewhat different from urban parkour, it's similar enough that the basics, at least, carry over.

[Morgenstern]

I dunno, I still think the District B13 chase is the best use of parkour in a movie. No wonder though, the skinny dude running is apparently the guy who 'invented' parkour.

Yeah.

That guy is sort of a living example why the Avatar expert class gets wuxia. His level of strenth:body wieght ratio starts doing strange things...

Again, look at Equilibrium Basics first. The end part of his descent is ALL about ignoring 20 foot drops. Springing is just suplimenting that.

The other thng I'm noticing with these guys is they appear to be very, very good at speed push checks (which already gain a synergy bonus from Resolve)...

[Morgenstern]

Until someone posts some deeply inspiring youtube footage or movie clip something, I'm going to continue to see freeruning as an urban phenomena.

You rang, master?

Admittedly, the movies are mostly clips of people jumping and landing, but there are occasional clips that are "proof of concept", and although the article does mention that rural parkour is somewhat different from urban parkour, it's similar enough that the basics, at least, carry over.

Good stuff .Took me a moment to realize all three words were seperate links.

Most of that is reinforcing my impression of the relevance of man-made spaces, but it's also suggesting some refinements (and that my Tarzan-solution might be sound). The rock jumps had one tiny little clip of awesome buried in it that made me think neither the Equilibrium or Springing feats had covered it.

The biggest thing to note is that Parkour footage generally builds on stuff I'd call the Equilibrium basics feat. May have to change the Springing prerequisites so that that happens consistently.

Ideas percolating...

[Morgenstern]

Hmm. Try this.

Springing Basics
Over the heating duct, off the rail, down the drainpipe - without breaking stride.
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 6+ ranks.
Benefit: Your threat range when making Athletics/Speed Push checks is increased by the number of Covert feats you possess. Twice per round you may move through a cluttered square, treating it as an empty space. Further, you are considered to have 1 additional Chase feat for the purpose of any ability, prerequisite, or requirement based on the number of Chase feats you posses. Finally, while in urban terrain (any man-made structure or developed landscape), your Resolve provides a synergy bonus to your Acrobatics/Tumble checks.

Springing Mastery
You've been known to step out the back... even when it's nine stories up!
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 9+ ranks, Springing Basics.
Benefit: You may use the higher of your Acrobatics or Athletics ranks when making Athletics/Climb and Athletics/Maneuver checks. Further, you are considered to have 1 additional Terrain feat for the purpose of any ability, prerequisite, or requirement based on the number of Terrain feats you posses. Finally, while in urban terrain, your Resolve provides a synergy bonus to your Acrobatics/Jump checks.

Springing Supremacy
The city is like a three-dimensional playground to you
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 12+ ranks, Springing Mastery.
Benefit: Your maximum ranks in Acrobatics increase to your career level + 6. This bonus does not stack with other abilities that increase your maximum Acrobatics ranks. Further, you may move at your full speed while making Athletics/Climb checks if you will reach a surface with a Climb DC of 15 or less by the end of a single half action (including a surface that does not require a Climb check). Finally, while in urban terrain, your Resolve provides a synergy bonus to your Acrobatics/Falling checks.

[Morgenstern]

Springing Mastery still bugs me - without the urban restriction it guts athletcs, which has gained importance from the revised Springing Basics. Gonna have to think on it more .

[nil]

Maybe you could restrict the number of times one can substitute Acrobatics for Athletics when not in urban terrain, maybe tie it to the number of Covert feats one possesses. Here's one idea :

Springing Mastery
You've been known to step out the back... even when it's nine stories up!
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 9+ ranks, Springing Basics.
Benefit: You may use the higher of your Acrobatics or Athletics ranks when making Athletics/Climb and Athletics/Maneuver checks when in urban terrain. You may use this ability outside of urban terrain a number of times equal to the number of Covert feats you possess. Furthermore, once per session, you may use the higher of your Acrobatics or Athletics ranks when making Athletics/Maneuver checks for the purpose of one chase. Further, you are considered to have 1 additional Terrain feat for the purpose of any ability, prerequisite, or requirement based on the number of Terrain feats you posses. Finally, while in urban terrain, your Resolve provides a synergy bonus to your Acrobatics/Jump checks.

Might be a little too complicated and clustered, though.

[Agent 333]

Maybe a good place to clarify what counts as what terrain would be in a sidebar for the Scout Class Confidential?

[Crafty_Alex]

Maybe a good place to clarify what counts as what terrain would be in a sidebar for the Scout Class Confidential?

Outside of the aforementioned product - which would be the best place to break it down further for people - I could see it. I'm on Class Confidential: Hacker at the moment, though, so it will probably wait a little while

[Morgenstern]

Maybe you could restrict the number of times one can substitute Acrobatics for Athletics when not in urban terrain, maybe tie it to the number of Covert feats one possesses. Here's one idea :

Benefit: You may use the higher of your Acrobatics or Athletics ranks when making Athletics/Climb and Athletics/Maneuver checks when in urban terrain. You may use this ability outside of urban terrain a number of times equal to the number of Covert feats you possess. Furthermore, once per session, you may use the higher of your Acrobatics or Athletics ranks when making Athletics/Maneuver checks for the purpose of one chase.

Might be a little too complicated and clustered, though.

The problem has moved on actually - with Speed Push becomeing important to them, I'm basically re-examining the chain as Acrobatics & Athletics based. Basically after the first feat I'd expect most power builds would have max Athletics anyway, so the substiution is largely worthless or counterproductive. Basically it needs a whole new thang. Back to watching the clips I guess . The new Supremacy is just better worded. The new basics I'm pretty pleased with too.

(and nobody seems to have caught the obvious goof in the original Springing Basics feat...  )

[Antilles]

Resolve already gives synergy to Acrobatics/Balance?

[Morgenstern]

Resolve already gives synergy to Acrobatics/Balance?

Yup. I always give designers crap when they write something that does nothing.

Even myself.

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmm. Try this.

Springing Basics
Over the heating duct, off the rail, down the drainpipe - without breaking stride.
Prerequisites: Acrobatics 6+ ranks.
Benefit: Your threat range when making Athletics/Speed Push checks is increased by the number of Covert feats you possess. Twice per round you may move through a cluttered square, treating it as an empty space. Further, you are considered to have 1 additional Chase feat for the purpose of any ability, prerequisite, or requirement based on the number of Chase feats you posses. Finally, while in urban terrain (any man-made structure or developed landscape), your Resolve provides a synergy bonus to your Acrobatics/Tumble checks.

My only suggestion in this case would be to replace 'while in urban terrain (any man made structure or developed landscape) with 'while in urban terrain, any man made structure, or developed landscape' - replacing the parenthesis with a comma - making it an inclusive set rather than defining or redefining 'urban terrain'. The feat chain then embraces the city environment, but no longer attempts to limit the choice only to cities. A putt putt course becomes just as viable as Los Angeles or the ruins of New Orleans after Katrina.

The Auld Grump

[Morgenstern]

Gotta pass, because doing so would only serve to further separate those things and the intent is that 'urban terrain' includes those places, rather than existing seperately from them . It's just the first place I've run across to include what amounts to a reminder from my perspective.

[TheAuldGrump]

Gotta pass, because doing so would only serve to further separate those things and the intent is that 'urban terrain' includes those places, rather than existing seperately from them . It's just the first place I've run across to include what amounts to a reminder from my perspective.

The urge to say sarcastic things about the misuse of the English language is rising - but I will bravely fight it off.... Look up 'Urban' in any dictionary, and you will find that it doesn't include any of those beyond 'city' - Urban means 'pertaining to cities' not 'pertaining to man made structures'.

'Forest' terrain does include 'rain forest', 'alpine woodland' and even 'wooded state park' - 'Urban' does not include rolling farm land or a hunting preserve. Again, it comes down to redefining a term that does not need redefining - so why do it?

I have to admit that I do not understand why you are so wedded to this misuse of the term. I have a love of the language, and dislike seeing it cavalierly abused.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* I have to admit, abuse of the defenseless English language aside, this looks like a good chain.