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Author Topic: Announcing Shooter's Guide I: Pistol-Caliber Carbines  (Read 7753 times)
MilitiaJim
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2009, 02:43:32 PM »

I'll just wait for the Crafty bunch to figure out what to do with the title "Riddle of Steel" I don't think you can go wrong with it.  Or I definitely had been jonesing for info on the Cx4 (my favorite gun aside from the minigun).

I was going to grip that the Cx4 Storm doesn't come in .45ACP, but it does.  Now I just can gripe that it doesn't take my 1911 magazines, but let me check.  Nope.  But my gripes are pretty minor, and it seems that with hollowpoints this is a damn fine home defense weapon.  (In .45ACP, 9mm is still junk.)

I almost think it should have a shorter barrel and a removable stock and be sold as a pistol.
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2009, 03:09:28 PM »

(In .45ACP, 9mm is still junk.)

This is the wrong forum to continue the eternal 9/45 debate, but I will point out a few things in defense of the 9mm:

1) I only use ball ammo for plinking; I load Federal HydraShok for any other use. I am, frankly, more concerned about the ability of the operator (me) than of the ammunition, should use of the pistol ever become necessary.
2) I get more ammunition per magazine that I would with the .45ACP.
3) I pay less per round (9mm is about 2/3 the cost of .45ACP), which theoretically translates to more practice (only in theory, alas, as time has become the limiting factor).
4) My wife, who has small hands, is often better able to manage the grip on a pistol chambered for 9mm than .45ACP (double stack mags, anyway).

You're welcome to your .45ACP, which I think is a fine chambering for any pistol caliber firearm. But don't pee in my 9mm cheerios. Tongue

Walter
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2009, 03:54:46 PM »

Quote from: MilitiaJim
I almost think it should have a shorter barrel and a removable stock and be sold as a pistol.

So that would be the Storm Rx4 you'd be after then?
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2009, 04:23:43 PM »

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I almost think it should have a shorter barrel and a removable stock and be sold as a pistol.
So that would be the Storm Rx4 you'd be after then?
No.  The Storm Rx4 is sized and sold as a rifle, and comes in .223 Remington Magnum.  Not a round I would pick to use on people.  But now we're heading into arguments revolving around gun bunny bigotries.
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2009, 05:52:46 PM »

I was going to grip that the Cx4 Storm doesn't come in .45ACP, but it does.

Yep.  And figuring out how to accurately and concisely convey all the different magazine configurations in meaningful game terms was a minor headache.

Quote
Now I just can gripe that it doesn't take my 1911 magazines, but let me check.  Nope.  But my gripes are pretty minor, and it seems that with hollowpoints this is a damn fine home defense weapon.  (In .45ACP, 9mm is still junk.)

Yeah, about the only readily-available option for a 1911-compatible PCC these days is a Marlin Camp 45 (currently five of 'em on GunBroker).

This is the wrong forum to continue the eternal 9/45 debate...

Yeah, let's just not go there.  Please.

- C.
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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2009, 07:37:49 PM »

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No.  The Storm Rx4 is sized and sold as a rifle, and comes in .223 Remington Magnum.  Not a round I would pick to use on people.  But now we're heading into arguments revolving around gun bunny bigotries.

I actually meant to type Px4 there. There was lack of sleep involved.
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VisualStatic
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2009, 10:28:53 PM »

I like my Px4 (Mod G) in 9MM..... its a bit easier for me to control compared to my Sig P226 (.40 S&W).
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« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2009, 11:01:04 AM »

Yeah, about the only readily-available option for a 1911-compatible PCC these days is a Marlin Camp 45 (currently five of 'em on GunBroker).

The Marlin Camp 45 was on the short list.

On a separate note, I just ran across two interesting (to me) bits o' fluff on the internet that are directly related to this Shooter's Guide:

1) Uppers and lowers are available in the AR-15 platform that accept .45 ACP.
2) Bushmaster makes a 5.56 NATO caliber pistol (Bushmaster Carbon-15 Pistol, 7.25 Barrel, 30rd Mag).

Walter
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2009, 01:54:57 PM »

The Marlin Camp 45 was on the short list.

If you wind up getting one, I want a range report.   Cool

Quote
On a separate note, I just ran across two interesting (to me) bits o' fluff on the internet that are directly related to this Shooter's Guide:

1) Uppers and lowers are available in the AR-15 platform that accept .45 ACP.
2) Bushmaster makes a 5.56 NATO caliber pistol (Bushmaster Carbon-15 Pistol, 7.25 Barrel, 30rd Mag).

Yeah, one of my playtesters made the point about the various AR configurations when he was reviewing this, but I didn't want to bog down with six different civilian AR variants.  And Keith loves the AR pistols, so I'm gonna have to do something about those - at least for Reflex, if not for SC2 - at some point in the future...

- C.
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« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2009, 02:24:59 PM »

If you wind up getting one, I want a range report.   Cool

If I get one, I'll supply that report. The only real concerns about the Marlin Camp 45 seem to be failure of the recoil buffer block (easily replaced, along with the recoil spring, by aftermarket parts) and the plastic trigger housing (which I have no doubt I will dissolve with the wrong cleaner or crack during use; I am painfully hard on my gear).

Yeah, one of my playtesters made the point about the various AR configurations when he was reviewing this, but I didn't want to bog down with six different civilian AR variants.

The differences between the AR-15 variants (other than chambering) just aren't significant from a game mechanic POV. Existing weapon upgrades should be able to account for most/all of the real differences between similarly chambered AR-15s. Everything else is (frighteningly rabid AR-15 fan club aside) insignificant at the level of detail SC2.0 models.

Walter
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2009, 03:00:48 PM »

Yeah, one of my playtesters made the point about the various AR configurations when he was reviewing this, but I didn't want to bog down with six different civilian AR variants.  And Keith loves the AR pistols, so I'm gonna have to do something about those - at least for Reflex, if not for SC2 - at some point in the future...

- C.

An AR pistol shouldn't be too hard, knock the range increment down to @50', and drop the average damage by a couple points, maybe to 2d6+2.
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« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2009, 06:07:28 PM »

There should be stats for one, if not both, of the comercial 5.56 NATO pistols in the new guns thread.

Edit: Yep. Kel-Tec PLR-16 and Bushmaster Carbon 15. Don't forget the LMF quality that both 5.56mm pistols should have.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 07:43:40 PM by Krensky » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2009, 09:13:41 PM »

Yeah, I'm more partial to the Kel-Tec PLR-16. I don't like the exposed barrel but I don't like the extended buffer spring area on the Bushmaster less. I also like the look of the SU-16D.
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Keith Taylor
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