Batman/DC Universe Discussion

[ThunderMonkey]

I'm not that much of a DC comic reader... I abandoned the Bat-lines after Knight Quest (that was a big circular nothing)... doesn't seem like missed too much.

I'm sticking next to my New Avengers, but that'll be about it (although the new Dark Avengers looks promising... but that remains to be seem.)

MOVING along... I really dig "Kingdom Come" and I've read it twice since I got it for Christmas.

In this timeline Bruce is crippled and is still pretty much a cynical bastard as he uses robots to patrol Gotham.

[Mister Andersen]

You should really check out the Marvel Adventures line -- they're actually fun, where the characters are all likeable and heroic. The Avengers book in that line is complete and utter win - Iron Man, Cap, Spidey, Thor, Storm, Hulk, Wolvie and Giant Girl (Janet van Dyne).

They team up with the Agents of Atlas against Kang

Or here's the solicit for issue #31: Good Things Come to Those Who Bait! With the Avengers vacationing on the sunny California beaches, Tigra hopes to finally conquer her fear of water, but things go sour when Iron Man challenges Luke Cage to a deep sea fishing contest and the two of them, ahem, bend the rules a bit. Iron Man sends a sonar pulse to stir up the really big fish, unfortunately rousing not only a monster from the deep, but also one seriously angry Prince of Atlantis...Namor, the Sub-Mariner! Lucky the Avengers brought the Hulk along! It's the slugfest to end all slugfests, and it does nothing to help Tigra's fear of water!

[Number Three]

Well that's part of the problem -- to the average person, comics and superheroes are essentially the same thing because that's essentially what the mainstream industry in America publishes to the exclusion of most else for newstand distribution.

I'm of the opinion that unless the 'mainstream' takes steps to change that impression, pretty soon their isn't going to be a mainstream left.  The superhero monopoly will kill an entire medium in our culture, and no one along the direct market chain seems to want to do a damn thing about it.

Case in point: I work in the same town where Kevin Smith (of Clerks fame) owns a comic shop, Jay & Silent Bob's Secret Stash.  Along with the perfunctory Smith idolatry and movie swag, it also features... well, the exact same frelling thing every other comic shop in the country does.  Except it's clean.  They have managed to keep the "dirty, smelly, crowded hole in the wall" stereotype from the shop.  Which is a shame, because here's the local kid done good, kind of famous (but not 'internet famous'), with this fantastic opportunity to correct some of those other stereotypes about comics, and he settles for paying the rent on a 15' by 7' foot wall of Marvel and DC monthlies.

For a while, they were stocking the Lone Wolf and Cub books, and I was picking one up every couple of months when I got a chance to go across town.  Then one day, I walk in, and they're no where to be found.  I asked the guy behind the counter what happened, and he replied, "You can get them down the road at Borders, what's the point of carrying them?"  My mouth said, "oh," and thanked him as I left.  My brain wanted to scream, "They're a seminal work of a medium you've built an entire frakkin' store around, that's the point."  I didn't, because that would only make me into another comic book store cliche.  Also, no, I can never find them at the Borders down the street either.

How do we perform a massive paradigm shift in comics?  That's The $64,000 Question, and I haven't a clue how to answer it.  Right now, the only path we have in front of us are the current generation of kids reading through the manga bubble, and who knows how many years of them we need to grow up to change public perception.  The entire industry here in the states might dry up waiting for them.

(Yes, theoretically, the American industry should have noticed all the dollars pooring into Japanese manga and see the wisdom of writing to that audience.  However, as M. Anderson has pointed out, the American industry borders on criminally incompetent.  For example, ever since this big manga wave hit, I have never found a single book of Japanese born, American raised Stan Sakai's fantastic english samurai drama Usagi Yojimbo in the chain stores.  Since the book chains are more than happy to carry Dark Horse Comics translated manga, the only conclusion I can come to is that they don't bother with the critically acclaimed, Japanese-themed, already-in-print series because it was originally written in english, so it wouldn't fit.  )

[Mister Andersen]

Another thought on the Japanese output: the manga I'd refuse to buy I'd probably watch as an anime of because movement and sound (dubbed, naturally) can cover and make up for a multitude of sins, investing static images and printed words with drama and dynamism and emotional intensity (which subs just don't give you anything like you get from dubs).

[Mister Andersen]

For example, ever since this big manga wave hit, I have never found a single book of Japanese born, American raised Stan Sakai's fantastic english samurai drama Usagi Yojimbo in the chain stores.  Since the book chains are more than happy to carry Dark Horse Comics translated manga, the only conclusion I can come to is that they don't bother with the critically acclaimed, Japanese-themed, already-in-print series because it was originally written in english, so it wouldn't fit.  )

I suspect it might have more to do with the fact that on the face of it it may be interpretted as a furry book

[ahzad]

For a while, they were stocking the Lone Wolf and Cub books, and I was picking one up every couple of months when I got a chance to go across town.  Then one day, I walk in, and they're no where to be found.  I asked the guy behind the counter what happened, and he replied, "You can get them down the road at Borders, what's the point of carrying them?"  My mouth said, "oh," and thanked him as I left.  My brain wanted to scream, "They're a seminal work of a medium you've built an entire frakkin' store around, that's the point."  I didn't, because that would only make me into another comic book store cliche.  Also, no, I can never find them at the Borders down the street either.

As a comic book retailer I can feel your frustration at not being able to get something like Lone Wolf and Cub (I've quit restocking it as well), but I can also see your local retailers point.  I've found myself having to cut back on some trades and manga b/c the local Borders is continually expanding their offerings and as a small business I can't compete with a chain like Borders who have the buying power they have. I'll have customers come in and look at stuff and want me to give them 30% - 40% off on the merchandise b/c that's what they can get it for at Borders, but they would rather support me.  It's great that they want to support me, but I can't do that. If you factor in all my overhead I end up losing money or making just a couple of percent on that book which doesn't help. I hear the same reasons about me not carrying the Marvel Legends toys, you can get them cheaper across the street at Toy'R'Us than you can from me, and they'll sit here gathering dust. So I stick to the DC Direct and Marvel Select stuff that they can't get.

It's a frustrating thing as a consumer and a retailer.

[Number Three]

As a comic book retailer I can feel your frustration at not being able to get something like Lone Wolf and Cub (I've quit restocking it as well), but I can also see your local retailers point.  I've found myself having to cut back on some trades and manga b/c the local Borders is continually expanding their offerings and as a small business I can't compete with a chain like Borders who have the buying power they have. I'll have customers come in and look at stuff and want me to give them 30% - 40% off on the merchandise b/c that's what they can get it for at Borders, but they would rather support me.  It's great that they want to support me, but I can't do that. If you factor in all my overhead I end up losing money or making just a couple of percent on that book which doesn't help. I hear the same reasons about me not carrying the Marvel Legends toys, you can get them cheaper across the street at Toy'R'Us than you can from me, and they'll sit here gathering dust. So I stick to the DC Direct and Marvel Select stuff that they can't get.

A years hindsight later it occurred to me that they've been out long enough that the rush is over, and they're no longer paying for their shelf space.  I'm now in special-order-ville, because no one wants them collecting dust in their store.  It's the 30%-40% quote for a Borders that stumps me.  I've been in Borders, and I don't understand where they're getting it.  Amazon/internet, yeah, ridiculous discounts and, if you're really lucky, no shipping charges.  All the graphic novels I see in Borders are marked at full retail, and I don't see the sign posts to the big savings.  It's just the convenience of them having it right there, usually a week early because they don't care about release dates.

Toys?  Yeah, the chain stores make that horribly cut throat.  I completely missed out on the initial Heroscape rush because Toys R Us was selling it cheaper them my own distributors.  But I've only been given one break at the big book chains, and it wasn't worth the considerable hoops to get it.

Also, you are not supporting me by asking for a product at my cost.  I don't mind working on price, but my boss still has to have enough money to eat with, let along pay me. 

[tracker7]

MOVING along... I really dig "Kingdom Come" and I've read it twice since I got it for Christmas.

Kingdom Come is a terrific piece of work. I wasn't nearly as taken with The Kingdom, though.

The current Justice Society of America comic just wrapped up a lengthy story involving the Superman from KC being drawn into the main DCU. It's quite good, if sometimes a bit more drawn out than it needs to be, and the final half-dozen pages, showing what KC-Superman sees over the next thousand years of his life was beautiful.