Author Topic: Dueling canes  (Read 14194 times)

Horsepool

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2010, 03:45:04 AM »
...and Feruchemists (you'll see more of them later) rely on metal that's worn. So no holding a sword and using it as a steelmind, say.

Really?

Spoiler: show
But isn't that what Sazed did in the Homeland prison? Well, a lock and the bars of his cell, but the principle's the same. Heck, it's not really different then the Lord Ruler's trick or Sazed using the rings stuck in his stomach, and I seem to remember either Sazed or Tindwyl using a metalmind they had swallowed. The books imply that touching a large enough and pure enough piece of metal is sufficient for Feruchemistry.


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I would say that access to a trick like that - to use metal that's touched rather than worn, is definately a feat-like/advantage-like ability not in the basic Feruchemist package. Sazed is a pretty adept Feruchemist, after all. Stuff in the stomach is just as close or closer to you than the stuff that's worn, so it's the same to me (speaking purely from a game designer's stance).


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I'm pretty sure at some point the Lord Ruler outright banned Terrismen from touching any metal at all, for fear they would use it as a metalmind. It was only gotten rid of because it was impractical.

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It says quite clearly that merely touching a metalmind is more than enough to do everything it needs to do.  Wearing the stuff is just plain easier as you can wear something and still use your hands.  You could use your sword as your metalmind if you wanted, but you risk losing it should a lurcher or coinshot decide to disarm you.   Though you also risk such things with any metals on your person most Terrismen don't get involved in fighting often enough for it to matter.


As for the dueling canes, since they are used mostly by nobility I'd assume various fancy designs and jewels would be carved into the wood.  The fancier the cane, the more you'd impress.

Gargoyle

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2014, 09:24:12 PM »
Spoiler: show
It says quite clearly that merely touching a metalmind is more than enough to do everything it needs to do.  Wearing the stuff is just plain easier as you can wear something and still use your hands.  You could use your sword as your metalmind if you wanted, but you risk losing it should a lurcher or coinshot decide to disarm you.   Though you also risk such things with any metals on your person most Terrismen don't get involved in fighting often enough for it to matter.


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Have any of you actually held a sword? the hilt is not the same chunk of metal as the blade. Heck, it's usually not even metal, just plated wood or something. At least, that's my experience with my dad's katanas.

Edit: Sorry if I came across rudely with my italics. But i have spent some time thinking about this topic. It's usually a bad idea to hold your sword by the blade.


As for the duelling canes, since they are used mostly by nobility I'd assume various fancy designs and jewels would be carved into the wood.  The fancier the cane, the more you'd impress.

Heck yes!

This here cane was made from a Koloss leg... let me tell you that story...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As an aside, google "the cane as a weapon pdf"

Interesting manual from early 1900/10s on self defence.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 03:12:16 PM by Gargoyle »

Leonerd

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2014, 07:48:22 AM »
I even added a duel club to my game, where young noblemen can learn how to duel and have championships, titles, etc. It's a sport. Also, when a (usually young) nobleman feels insulted, he will grab his cane and say something pompous like "I demand an apology!" or "Should we settle this like gentlemen?". My take on duelling canes is that originally, nobles would carry around swords and duel over every little insult and to put a stop on this, canes became the fashion. Nowadays, they're just used to impress others.

Gargoyle

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2014, 03:25:12 PM »
Well, yes. That seems to have been the case in renaissance Europe, too. As Elend would say, I've never actually fought a duel, but I've certainly read books on historical swords and how one would use and wear them. The term swashbuckler originally came from a way of walking known as swashing such that your sword banged against your buckler. A certain brand of rogues would do this to call attention to themselves and to try to get into fights with others of similar nature and fashion. Also, I learned that it is rather tricky to bow with a sword.
As to canes being the fashion, I was just rereading the Well of Ascension at the Assembly meeting where Elend shows up in uniform and, as his fellow Assemblymen noted, a deuling cane as a possibly militant fashion statement.

Hypothetical thought: say a young, relatively unimportant noble, ended up lord of his house after the unforeseen... removal of his father and older siblings. He's now the heir, but all he really knows about is duelling (hazekiller being an honourable occupation for non-heir sons.) Would he be seen as able to defend his honour, or just a little too... (trigger? stick?) happy?

Also, I like the dueling club idea. Were opening a branch in Urteau City. Right now.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 03:28:14 PM by Gargoyle »

Leonerd

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2014, 04:29:14 AM »
I don't think anybody would really care about his prowess with a duelling cane. Most of the conflicts he'd face now would be related to the family business, and you can't solve these by duelling. He could try (he WOULD try if he was a PC), but the only result there would be that his enemies wouldn't take him seriously.

...

"Well, see here, my boy, we can't possibly pay the agreed price. See, there were certain factors we didn't know of when we signed the contract with your late father, and..."
"Okay, so how about we settle this by duelling?"

"We will have to charge you an additional fee as per 65b of our contract."
"Ooooooor we could have a duel."

"Son, you really need to stop challenging every business partner to a duel."
"Interesting idea. Let's have a duel to decide this!"

Morgenstern

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2014, 09:47:49 AM »
See, that's just negotiating from insufficient strength. Kidnaping a rival, unbagging their head in a discrete unused warehouse and letting them think they might get out of this relatively unscathed if they just best you in a duel, and then beating the living shit out of them before dumping them in an alley and sending your revised terms round by courier later that day... THAT might be a tactic that very much commands respect.

I always had the impression the noble houses worked more like organized crime families than even the crews do. Keeping both minions and rivals in line by masterful use of personal violence seems like a totally workable premise for a character that's not comedic at all...
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Gargoyle

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2014, 03:08:52 PM »
See, that's just negotiating from insufficient strength

Negotiations with a lightsaber.

Very traditional.

Kadrok

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2014, 06:35:46 PM »
I always had the impression the noble houses worked more like organized crime families than even the crews do...
THAT... is a really good analogy.
Interesting discussion, but I think rule of cool could reasonably trump mere science in a game about magic powers.   :P

Morgenstern

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2014, 11:21:26 AM »
I don't see how it could be any other way... The Final Empire doesn't operate on the Rule of Law. It runs on naked power and the whims of those who have more of it than you do. And with everyone of any significance having so many enemies (it's almost the defining feature of being important...) a well-executed murder or three is hardly gong to trail back to just one likely candidate for revenge.

If a noble house gets shanked, either by a crew or another house, who are they going to appeal to? Nightmares with nails driven through their eyes? Petition the Lord ruler, who will more likely than not laugh, strip you of your name, and reassign your attium shipments to someone who isn't a fool?

I suspect they are polite exactly as long as they are polite. And after that, they aren't polite at all in their dealings with each other. The concepts of made men and not mauling non-combatant family probably holds sway most of the time. But if you're going to exterminate a line in toto, who is there to care about the condition of the bodies you were going to hide anyway?
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Kurkistan_

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2014, 02:13:29 PM »
I think we may not be giving the rule of law enough credit here. Recall that the entire story we've seen is from the perspective of heavily oppressed and considered-subhuman skaa. Of course they don't have any rights or protections.  ;)

Even the violence of the House war is something TLR is noted to be allowing on a whim as an exception to the rule rather than the norm. While I've no doubt that things a bit more... flexible all of the time than we'd consider normal, I don't think it best to treat the Final Empire as the Wild West, at least so far as nobles are concerned.

Leonerd

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2014, 10:52:19 PM »
(This one's speculation/my game only)

There are definitely rules in place, like "Don't use allomancers to attack other houses.". It's just that they're enforced in a different way than what we're familiar with. Sure, your house can attack and completely destroy another house, but if it becomes public, their allies would fight back, your own allies would be pressured to leave you and your trade would suffer greatly. Essentially it's a self-regulating system, with the complex structure of alliances keeping all the houses in line. Think UNO but actually effective Less Wild West, more Machiavelli.

Gargoyle

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Re: Dueling canes
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2014, 05:06:24 PM »
There are definitely rules in place, like "Don't use allomancers to attack other houses.". It's just that they're enforced in a different way than what we're familiar with.
Yep. Enforcement is a good word for the lack thereof.
Sure, your house can attack and completely destroy another house, but if it becomes public, their allies would fight back, your own allies would be pressured to leave you and your trade would suffer greatly. Essentially it's a self-regulating system, with the complex structure of alliances keeping all the houses in line.
Adding an espionage/intelligence aspect to the fighting/assassination, reputation bashing, and economic warfare. Keep everyone else in the dark until it is too late for them to help.
Sounds like a player challenge...