Mistborn

[iconoplast]

Has anyone else read this?

I picked up the books (Mistborn, The Well of Ascension) based on the announcement ...

1) They're great.  Seriously - I flew through them and am really looking forward to the next one.
2) The setting is perfect for an RPG.  There are (at least) two distinct systems of magic, both rule-driven and neatly delimited, with very simple laws and really rich permutations.  There's also a supernatural race and an evil empire.
3) The magic system looks really good for the SC2.0 system.

There's a bit of a "Jedi problem" in the Mistling (I can use one aspect of magic) vs. Mistborn (I can use all aspects of magic).   Not sure how you'll all deal with that.

[Jake]

I got both books in the mail from Amazon the other day and I'm flying through the first one. When I was one page 70 there was a half dozen people sitting around planning a job and all I could think was, "This is so Crafty. This is Crafty! I haven't seen anything this Crafty since....Ronin!" Its a bit dark, not that evil dark but soul crushing dark. I've been wondering about the magic system myself, I expect most people are going to want to play the Mistborn but that would involve everyone playing the same class. I get the feeling Allomancy will be handled as templates. You pick what class you want play (Intruder, Lancer, Thug, ect.) and then pick a Mistling template, similar to the racial templates in DnD. I suppose the same could be done with Mistborn and have them be Jacks, while Mistlings are more focused and gain greater abilities in their single focus. Magic was mentioned at some point in the book, so I suppose you could be a Sage-Smoker. 

I've been seeing a different Jedi aspect, instead of casting spells (nuke, snare, charm ect.) everything seems to be opposed rolls without much variance. You and your opponent burn steel to push back and forth, who rolls highest wins. You try to sooth someone, they oppose with a will save. That seems (so far) the limit of what you can do with Allomancy. That is really why I'm expecting templates, there doesn't seem to be enough there for full classes as Mistlings. You could make a full class out of Mistborns, but then thats what everyone would be, or it would be Star Wars.

Pick up the book, I'm digging it.

[Krensky]

I'd say it's dark fantasy in that the evil overlord won a thousand years ago and the world is very distopian,  but it's not soul crushing like Warhammer, or life sucks then you die like Dark Sun (which is not a complaint, just a description).

As for Allomancy, there's some question if MC is what they'll use for the game, but Mistling and Mistborn could be done as specialties, with the actual metals themselves showing as powers. This would, by it's nature make a Mistling potentially more powerful then a Mistborn in their particular field since they'd be spreading their skill points over 8 or so powers rather then focusing on 1. Luckily for the Mistborn, a lot of the metals can be used effectively with only a few ranks, don't do much, or are sort of an all or nothing proposition. Steel, iron, zinc, brass, and bronze all work well as opposed rolls, pewter and tin at high level would be good since their bonuses to relevant abilities could easily be tied to a degree of success (same with zinc and brass). Atium is kind of an all or nothing power, as is the other non-'useless' metal. The 'useless' metals probably not skills, per say since one has no positive controllable effect, and the others are massively limited divinations that skill do not seem to apply to. Well, one of them might be useful, we'll have to see in the third book.

[iconoplast]

I agree w/r/t Allomancy (magic) as "template" (probably a Talent) - the characters in the books are often good at doing something, and also good at Allomancy.  So you could have Talent (Mistborn) vs. Specialty (Smoker, Thug, Tineye, &c)

I don't know about making Mistborn a class, though - is there anything wrong with making it the most attractive choice?  Mistborn are rare and exceptional, and it stands to reason that a group of Mistborn would probably be treated exactly the way you'd expect a group of PCs to be treated - constantly petitioned for help, involved in all kinds of schemes and plans, and mistrusted and feared by the populace for the wanton destruction they leave in their wake.

[Crafty_Alex]

There are many options on the table for handling Allomancers, none of which have been decided yet. I have some very specific ideas about how to handle a party of Mistborn (no doubt, a popular choice) but you're generally on the right track that a Misting will be more powerful within his focus and probably able to do more things all-round.

Look at characters such as Breeze or Marsh or Ham when Vin trains under them in the first book - in all cases, Vin notices they are distinctly better than Kelsier in their respective disciplines.

As for gameability - it was the first thing I noticed when I picked the book up a year ago. Turns out the author is a big fan of gaming and ended up writing some very gameable stuff. This license is like a match made in heaven 

[Jake]

Having Mistlings as a Talent or Specialty just doesn't feel right. PCs have a tendency to be unusual, if you have a single talent for for each of the Mistlings, each of the characters would be average. Look at Ham, he's a Thug, but he's a philosophical Thug and the "exception to the rule" that all Thugs are brutish. Being usual he stands out and becomes one of the main characters of the story. If Thug was made into a talent (+2 Str, -2 Int Athletics is a class skill ect.) the character playing a the Thug becomes average. Instead, if Allomancy was allowed to become an additional template there could be a Daring Rescuer who then takes on the Thug template. He is not based on burning pewter, he simply uses it to augment his other skills.  This gives the character a personality beyond his Allomancy. I'm not that far into the book, but I haven't seen anything that locks the characters personality into their Allomancy. Club is a Smoker which involves stealth but he is rather rough and tumble instead of sneaky. Vin wants to spend her life hiding in a corner, but instead of being Smoker she is a Mistborn.  Breeze is a Soother but he spends such a great deal of time talking down to people that  he could be a Rioter.

I imagine this would take a great deal of QA but it feels right for RPing.

[iconoplast]

I'm just going to ignore Alex's "I have plans within plans" taunt & continue to speculate wildly.

So - we have, I guess, three options:
(1) Mistborn is a Class. 
(2) Mistborn is an Origin (Talent/Specialty)
(3) Mistborn is a Template.

The thing is, you can be either a Misting, a Mistborn, or neither.  You can't be both.   Plus, being Mistborn doesn't seem to really affect your ability to be something else - the Mistborn we meet in the novels all seem to have "Class Levels" in other classes.  (I'm trying to do this without spoilers, and it's hard.)

I don't think making it an Origin cuts down on the possible specialization / individualization of the character, but I also don't believe that Origins affect gameplay nearly as much as Class Levels do. 

However, just making it a template and handing it out for free seems like a really appealing idea.  You want your PC to be a Mistling?  Sure.  Mistborn?  Ok.  Ferruchemist?  Whatevs.  You just slap the template on top of the PC and call it good.  You're going to end up with a lot of Mistborn/Misting PCs, but there really isn't anything wrong with that.

[Krensky]

And what makes PCs unusual in SC/MC is that they use action dice. Ham, despite his philosophizing is still a Thug. Everything about his character and role in the story is physical or derives from his physicality. What sets him apart is not a origin, but skills, intrests, and a feat or two. Breeze is a manipulator and a soother. In fact he's almost the iconic representation of a Soother, just as Allrianne is a straight example of what she is. Clubs is a smoker, but that isn't about stealth really, it's about shielding yourself. He could be described as Mistling (Smoker) Serviceman (or it's equivalent). Spook is almost defined as a character by being a Tineye, and Marsh's sole existance in the story is as a Seeker.

The characters are great and well developed, but their unusualness has more to do with their 'insanity' then by differing from an archetype.

I am half tempted to suggest Allomancy a feat tree, namely due to the whole Snapping thing and the bit at the end of book two.

[Jake]

However, just making it a template and handing it out for free seems like a really appealing idea.  You want your PC to be a Mistling?  Sure.  Mistborn?  Ok.  Ferruchemist?  Whatevs.  You just slap the template on top of the PC and call it good.  You're going to end up with a lot of Mistborn/Misting PCs, but there really isn't anything wrong with that.

And I think that would really be the point of the setting. Think of it like this (another Jedi example) if your group wants to play Star Wars, one player is going to be a Smuggler, another a Noble and finally a Jedi. In Star Wars you really can't be a Jedi Knight/Smuggler, in Mistborn you can be a Soother/Fixer.

Now, the mix of of Mistlings/Mistborns in a party, even if the Mistlings have such strength in their single Allomancy, I think the Mistborns could still outshine them (Kell does leave everyone behind when he goes out causing shenanigans). It might be a choice to make at the beginning by the players and GC, similar to Faction/Freelance. The players argue, the GC decides, the game starts.

[Krensky]

So - we have, I guess, three options:
(1) Mistborn is a Class. 
(2) Mistborn is an Origin (Talent/Specialty)
(3) Mistborn is a Template.

Well, Mistborn and Mistling could be classes, either Base or Expert ones. In fact, Mistborn as a class makes a lot of sense, just due to the fact that they all seem to receive the same training.

If I was to try and hack this together now... Hmm... I think I might make Mistborn and Mistling feats that provide basic access to abilities. This would be Vin in the beginning with the Mistborn feat and a level or two in thief. Essentially the feat would allow you to burn metal and make power checks, but the initial one would not allow you to spend points on that power. One of the first level abilities of the Allomancer or Mistborn class would be to allow you to buy ranks in whatever powers you can access.

[Krensky]

And I think that would really be the point of the setting. Think of it like this (another Jedi example) if your group wants to play Star Wars, one player is going to be a Smuggler, another a Noble and finally a Jedi. In Star Wars you really can't be a Jedi Knight/Smuggler, in Mistborn you can be a Soother/Fixer.

Now, the mix of of Mistlings/Mistborns in a party, even if the Mistlings have such strength in their single Allomancy, I think the Mistborns could still outshine them (Kell does leave everyone behind when he goes out causing shenanigans). It might be a choice to make at the beginning by the players and GC, similar to Faction/Freelance. The players argue, the GC decides, the game starts.

And what about people who want to play mundanes or a kandra?

[Jake]

I haven't read about Kandras yet (I'm only on pg 225 in the first book). As for mundanes, I don't see the draw. Everyone else is pushing steel and fly through the air and you're jogging behind them trying to keep. But you are right, someone will want to play them. Hmmm...

[Krensky]

I haven't read about Kandras yet (I'm only on pg 225 in the first book). As for mundanes, I don't see the draw. Everyone else is pushing steel and fly through the air and you're jogging behind them trying to keep. But you are right, someone will want to play them. Hmmm...

You have, they just haven't been named yet. As for mundanes, Dockson, Yeden, Demoux, and Eland are mundanes and I'd say pretty playable ones. Remember, almost everyone in the books, 'magician' or not without a name (and a number of named people too) are NPCs. I'd say the Crew are PCs, with Vin being the low level newbie. I might even, if I was building her, have her be a Level 0 Mistborn when she first shows. I think on examination making Mistling and Mistborn base classes with some support drawn from the magic dabbling feats that have been eluded to in FC might be the best way to do the world without writing a whole new system.

For the record, I feel Inquisitors should remain firmly in the NPC territory, and I think so should Koloss. Inquisitors, well, because they're the bad guys and the Koloss are a little too... orcish in the classic sense. They might be playable depending on what comes up in the third book, but I doubt it. Kandra might unplayable as well, but their concept is really cool so it depends a lot on how their society gets fleshed out in the third book and whatever Brandon gives the Triumvirate.

[iconoplast]

If Kandra are not a playable PC race then the terrorists have won.

[Krensky]

If Kandra are not a playable PC race then the terrorists have won.

Well, their whole issue with Mistborn might be a problem, especially since OreSur implies it's not the Lord Ruler or Vin specifically.