Steampunk --> Diesel Punk

[TheAuldGrump]

I gather that part of the reason my players are ambivalent about advancing the timeline of the game into that of the Great War is that the technology will be changing from steam to diesel, that somehow steam is more magical than diesel.

For me both are the magic of advancing technology. I once got into an argument of sorts with a proponent of bio-diesel on the grounds that bio-diesel is not a new thing, but rather exactly what Diesel had in mind when he created his engine. Somehow it bothered her that someone from the 19th to early 20th Century would already have the 'next new thing' in mind. (Rudolf Diesel was one of my heroes growing up, along with Nicolai Tesla and Radical Jack Durham.) Diesel ran his engine on peanut oil, and had corn oil in mind.

So, my question is this - is steam somehow more 'magical' or just plain cooler than diesel, and what of electricity (which Verne and the various Edisonades were fond of)?

The Auld Grump

[Krensky]

I think it's less the tech, and more the disappearance of Victorian society.

It's also worth remembering that Fords originally ran on ethanol.

[Crafty_Pat]

I suspect it's because steam feels more alien than diesel to we who live in this "modern" age.

[Valentina]

Plus, Steampunk's all shiny and brass. Elaborate Victorian age elegance and ornamentation. Long hair and leather layers. Highly individualistic everything.
Elaborate and exotic pipes and wines.

Dieselpunk inspires grime, grease and steel. Soviet-era hard corners, plain grey surfaces with glaring red accents/banners, hard contrasts. Overalls and heavy gloves, goggles and uniforms. Mass production and uniformity.
Cigarettes and plain bottles.

Well, some personal. association anyway. =]

[TheAuldGrump]

Plus, Steampunk's all shiny and brass. Elaborate Victorian age elegance and ornamentation. Long hair and leather layers. Highly individualistic everything.
Elaborate and exotic pipes and wines.

Dieselpunk inspires grime, grease and steel. Soviet-era hard corners, plain grey surfaces with glaring red accents/banners, hard contrasts. Overalls and heavy gloves, goggles and uniforms. Mass production and uniformity.
Cigarettes and plain bottles.

Well, some personal. association anyway. =]

Heh, whereas I view that association as having its roots in the 19th Century.

For that matter, do the phrases Victorian, the Eighteen-Hundreds, the Gay 'Nineties, and the 19th Century all bring different images, or is that just me grasping at straws?

The Auld Grump, of them I suspect that 'the Gay 'Nineties' has fallen out of use, if only because the 1990s have come and gone....

*EDIT* My perceptions may be colored by the fact that I am by way of being familiar (though not personally) with that period of history - and am far too familiar with the conditions of the working poor during the period. (The unions also have their roots in the 19th Century.)

[Krensky]

I hoestly think it's the end of the Victorian/Imperial era that WWI is.

[TheAuldGrump]

I hoestly think it's the end of the Victorian/Imperial era that WWI is.

Now that I can't argue with - so many things that the Imperials had taken for granted just did not work anymore, and confidence in their infallibility had vanished.

That is in fact part of the reason I want to run a game in this period.

It is also worth noting that the 1800s were a very different time in the United States than they were in Europe - there was still a largely unsettled wilderness, and no shortage of resources to exploit that wilderness. Capitalism rather than Imperialism was the driving force behind the Edisonade (a phrase I am using way too much at the present time... damn Steampunk Magazine!) Railroad Tycoons are an indelible image of the time, as are the sweatshops, the Molly Maguires, the Wobblies and the Anarchists. For me at the least.

Even England is as much Dickens to my mind as it is Victoria and Sherlock Holmes.

The Auld Grump

[Wolverine]

So, my question is this - is steam somehow more 'magical' or just plain cooler than diesel, and what of electricity (which Verne and the various Edisonades were fond of)?

There's certainly a style which is associated with Steam-based technology, as well as a shared assumption that water vapour is capable of doing things it could never do in real life (like power a gun turret with IFF in Bioshock). Most of the 'magic', though, comes from the nostalgia factor, and the usually false belief that the Victorian era was a time of prosperity and the like.

Dieselpunk does sound good, and a whole lot better than 'biodieselpunk' (unless you're bringing in genetic engineering and cybernetics).

[MilitiaJim]

Diesel could emerge as the new fuel source in areas that are short on coal, and move the party out to the ends of nowhere?