Class Creation

[Jake]

So I've been looking through the book trying to figure out how to balance classes and I've just about got it. The one inconsistency that keeps popping up is on the class tables; BAB,Saves, Def,Int,Wealth, and Gear. No matter how I assign points the Snoop class always comes out with a higher than average amount of abilities and the Wheelman ends up being below average . All the other class are coming out spot on even. I'm not going to post this system in fear that the Crafty team will ban me from the boards, I'm just wondering if anyone else has come to this inconstancy.

[Krensky]

I doubt they'd ban you. The guidelines under 1.0/1.5 were on the AEG boards.

As for you quandry, off the top of my head... Did you account for the type of gear?

[Morgenstern]

Definitely not banning material . I like talking nuts and bolts and the system is designed to make reverse engineering fairly straight forward (mmm... consistency).

Wheelman looks fine on my review, but there is something very odd going on with the Snoop. Gonna have to dig into that one.

[Jake]

Krensky - I hadn't check into that but I just sketched it out and nothing is jumping out. Wheelman is the only class to get 4 vehicles but I don't think that make up for its slightly lower score. Snoop gets some very nice gear, 5 Tradecraft picks (no other class goes above 3), and I see no way that could be a penalty towards the its high score.

EDIT: Medwyn just sent me a class a class creation guide from the wiki so I guess it is cool to post this. He is the part I'm having trouble with, I've tried doing this a few different ways and the math always comes out the same, here is the first method I tried:

Each of the class tables lists bonus for BAB, Saves, ect. Each of these bonus has a High, Medium, and Low set, for example, the BAB for each class will max out at either 10, 15, or 20. Mission gear maxes out at either 8, 12, or 16 pieces. If we make Low sets worth 1 point, Medium sets worth 2 points, and High sets worth 3 points, we should be able to add each class table up and and find a balance. Every base class in the handbook is worth 16 points except the Wheelman, worth 15, and the Snoop which is worth 18. All the classes line up so well except those two, they are extremely focused classes but I see nothing ability wise (Intuition, Vehicle Familiarity, ect.) to balance out the scores. I've also tried mixing in Vitality Dice and weapon pro but that didn't help.

[Gatac]

On the Snoop, I'm seeing 1 Low, 4 Medium, 3 High. That's definitely out of whack somewhere. But Wheelman comes out as 2 Low, 4 Medium, 2 High, that should be fine.

Iirc, weapon proficiencies come from summing up Vitality dice and BAB progression. The Snoop has low + low, so that's 2. But Vitality dice are only balanced against skill points. In any event, weapon profs shouldn't figure into the balance of the 8 "tabled" stats.

Curious and curiouser...I think I'll have to see which column to drop on the Snoop in my games.

Gatac

[gaghiel42]

You guys and your number crunching makes me smile a little.  Sure, Im good at Min/maxing and bending systems to my whim.  You guys actually interpret the mechanics behind the thing... *shakes head* Man, that must be both frustratingly annoying and awesome all the same.  (I think I have a Wis bonus to my Powergamer skill while you seem to enjoy the Int bonus...) 

[meadicus]

Wow, I noticed the snoop's 2 extra points ages ago. I always assumed there must be a good reason for it and never got around to asking.

Stuntman also doesn't add up, 3 medium and 2 high makes him a point short

[Gatac]

3 Low, 3 Medium, 2 High...yeah, that's messed up, too.

I'd bump Init to Medium.

Gatac

[Jake]

Hmmm, I did mess up the Ref save on the Wheelman, I marked it as a medium. Funny that the Snoop is over powered and it has always been the class I had the least interest in playing. I think I'd drop Ref to low and Gear to medium for balance.

I find it odd that all the base classes in the handbook and the previews on the website except for the Fixer, the Thief, and the Fantasy Craft classes have action dice tied to their Core Ability. The 4 exceptions throw me a bit.

And Gaghiel, you gotta figure out the system, or else you won't be able make classes of you own 

[MugMug]

Would someone like to post/link to the guide/system? I'm not above using the work of others.

Walter

[Jake]

Here it is, under 1.0/Stargate in the wiki. http://www.crafty-games.com/node/123  It needs to be converted to 2.0, mostly the BP and the abilities by level. When (if) I finish scribing out the system I'm deciphering I'll post it.

[Toccata]

For some reason I am recalling some kind of errata regarding the Snoop's progression table at some point in the past, but I don't remember the details or if it was fixed for the second printing.

[Golden Dragon]

I dug up my old notes from when I was trying to reverse engineer the class tables.  I have the Snoop as +2, The Counter-Terrorist as +1, and the Stuntman and Virtuoso as -1.

[Morganti]

Quick Question, was the class ablity diagram for Master classes ever posted? Not that I can't figure it out by looking, but I was curious if they were ever offered up to the masses in a handy dandy guide.

~D~

[Bigode]

Was the snoop issue ever figured out? AFAICT, what'd make the most sense'd be lowering the medium saves. FTR, the best resource on this issue seems to be this.

Also, Morgenstern == Scott Gearin?

Lastly, if that's not trying to shove too much off-topicness (but still related to snoops ): Fantasy Craft seemed slated to have a spymaster class at some point. Aside from it, all others showed up now that martial artist's out. So, does that mean there's still a spymaster to go?