Blackpowder throw down

[Morgenstern]

Ok, I'm working the primative firearms part of the gear chapter right now. If you have some tidbit or quirk you'd like to see represented, this would be the moent to bring it to my attention. Otherwise fire-spears are going to be the mostest powerfulest weaponest ever-est, 'cause I like em !

[Krensky]

Well, it does depend slightly on the type, but I'm assuming flint locks here.

It would be nice if they had realistic reload times. If I remember right a trained British infantryman was expected to be able to load and fire three rounds in a minutes, with elite units managing five or six.

Blackpowder also says fouling and thick, obscuring smoke to me.

[TheAuldGrump]

Well, it does depend slightly on the type, but I'm assuming flint locks here.

It would be nice if they had realistic reload times. If I remember right a trained British infantryman was expected to be able to load and fire three rounds in a minutes, with elite units managing five or six.

Blackpowder also says fouling and thick, obscuring smoke to me.

The big problem with realistic loading times is that you also have to fiddle with crossbows - which were slower to load and ready than blackpowder guns. (I have fired both - the cranquin on a arbelist is a pain in the butt.)

But yes - the smoke is something that lingers in the memory, smelling like the Devil's own flatulence - and if it is even the least bit foggy then the stuff hangs there for a lot longer than you might expect. Handgunners used to develop a wracking cough that was similar in both effect and cause to blacklung or miner's lung.

Some of the possible critical failures include:
Hangfire - the shot does not go off when the gun is fired, but later. Caused by damp priming powder.
Weld shot - hot gases leak around the ball, melting the lead and welding it in place - a royal pain in the arse to fix, too.
Fouling - ideally you clean the gun after every shot, not always possible on the field of battle.
Blowback - two different versions - first: the touch hole has been damaged - a jet of burning powder comes shooting out like a Roman candle. Second: Fouling near the muzzle causes the barrel to burst - the classic 'daisy' used in Looney Toons when Elmer's gun blows up.

The powder and the residue left from a shot are corrosive - you can't leave your gun loaded all the time, and if you don't clean it well then in damp weather the crud lining the barrel will begin to etch the metal. Sometimes bacon fat was used to oil the barrel when other options were not available.

For cannon deafness was a common ailment among the crew.

Good armor was 'bullet proofed' - the gunsmith would load a pistol, walk about thirty to fifty feet back, and fire a shot at the breastplate, leaving a lovely lead splotch that proved the armor.

Corned powder was not always around - early powders are less powerful. Corning involves damping the powder, making it into a cake, allowing it to dry, then grinding it evenly.

Powder improperly maintained gathers moisture from the air, becoming less effective, and more likely to foul.

The Auld Grump, guess what one of my hobbies was back in 1976....

[Sletchman]

For me, the more realism the better.  Its easier to remove rules because you wanna play a highly cinematic swashbuckling adventure then it is to add them in for a realistic game.

[Agent 333]

The Auld Grump, guess what one of my hobbies was back in 1976....

I initially read this as 1776, and had to do a double take. So, given that, my first guess was
"Fighting the British?"

[meadicus]

One word

CANNONS 

For full-on sea based swashbuckling fun, against the undead if needs be.

[Gentry]

With rules for cannister loads.  Bloody scuppers ahoy!

[TheAuldGrump]

The Auld Grump, guess what one of my hobbies was back in 1976....

I initially read this as 1776, and had to do a double take. So, given that, my first guess was
"Fighting the British?"

Heh! Not quite that old. Though I did participate in one recreationist battle against the redcoats.

The Auld Grump

[Mister Andersen]

Why would "primative" firearm development necessarily need to go the black powder shoved down the muzzke route? It seems to me that we possessed the technological and scientific capacity to have moved on to cartridges and rotary firing chambers at almost the same time we first developed firearms.

[Krensky]

Not really.

The chemistry that leads to percussion caps was only discovered in the early 19th century, and the metalurgy needed to make drawn brass cartridges is a late 19th century refinement. Without the percussion cap, you don't get cartridges, and without cartridges, you can't really make use of nitrocellulose. You also can't build a reliable breach loading rifle without metal (or metal and paper) case cartridges.

[Bill Whitmore]

It would be nice if they had realistic reload times. If I remember right a trained British infantryman was expected to be able to load and fire three rounds in a minutes, with elite units managing five or six.

I am wary of realistic load times.  I would rather go for fun reload times.  It may just be me, but I am not interested in running a combat where everyone fires on round one then hunkers down for a round or two doing nothing but reloading.

I could almost go with a reload time limiting shots to 5 per minute.  By making reloading a full round action you fire one round, reload the next, then be ready to fire again, but I would want that to be the norm, not the end of some firearms B/M/S feat tree.

I could go with the idea of using cartridges still.  Make it mithril/adamantite alloy casings with a magical spark for ignition.  Cartridge firearms could be the culmination of tech (black powder, rotary firing chambers) and magic (mithril/adamantite alchemy, spark trigger) research.  Make adamantite and mithril a limited resource, and every time a meteor crashes to earth, wars are fought for control of it.

And I agree with Meadicus: I definitely like the idea of having cannons.  I never found naval combat with ballistas and catapults to be as satisfying as naval combat with cannons.  It is almost a perverse, visceral thrill ripping apart another ship with a broadside blast of cannon fire.  Plus cannons make it possible to revive my 7th Seas campaign in Spycraft.

[Morgenstern]

I like realistic load times because they lead directly to realistic tactics - in the absence of a really long open field, you fire once and drop the weapon. reloading is something you do between fights or behind cover while ten of your buddies keep the enemy occupied. It also leads to the largely plausible behavior of carrying several guns - with the intent of shoot, drop, pick up later.

[TheAuldGrump]

I like realistic load times because they lead directly to realistic tactics - in the absence of a really long open field, you fire once and drop the weapon. reloading is something you do between fights or behind cover while ten of your buddies keep the enemy occupied. It also leads to the largely plausible behavior of carrying several guns - with the intent of shoot, drop, pick up later.

Pretty much why the lanyard was invented. And the festoon rig - think of a harness with a whole bunch of holsters and rings for the lanyards. The name originally meant 'garland' To be festooned with pistols meant carrying six, eight, or more fairly heavy pistols.

Also of note, flintlock era, was the Dublin Revolver - a gun with four barrels that were loaded ahead of time - you fired, then rotated the barrels by hand, locking it into place before taking the next shot. A heavy, heavy gun, but convenient in its place.

What is being done with reload times for crossbows, incidentally? They were the original 'fire and forget' weapon. Or possibly the first 'point and click' interface....

Blunderbusses also deserve special mention - primarily used for either hunting or for protecting coaches - they did not need a whole lot of aiming, and at (extremely) short distances were quite deadly. When used for hunting they were mostly for fowling - used at their outer range, where the spread would be most useful. PBS once had a show where someone fired a blunderbuss, close range, at a rabbit... not a whole lot left of the bunny for eating, I am afraid. They were notorious for accepting darned near anything for ammo - including coins, small rocks, and rock salt.

The Auld Grump

[Mister Andersen]

On a related note, are we going to see the damage formula applied to hurled weapons?

[Gentry]

To be festooned with pistols meant carrying six, eight, or more fairly heavy pistols.

I'd say it still means that.  I've certainly sat at modern-era SC tables where it applied.