Fantasy world advice - debt of Service

[jameswllorimer]

Hello there,

Ok, I've posted this idea on the WotC forums.. but they ain't really forthcoming with great ideas.

I'm running a campaign (FR one but the setting isn't the really important thing) that stresses the Good nature of everything the players do, and particulary with a connection to their deities (and any requests they make of them). It has so far involved two situations, where they've had to make a desicion; either the "Greater Good" or the mission for the God, each with repercussions for either choice they make.

Now here's the ask - I've got a PC who has been returned to life at his deity's behest (and thus no level loss) due to his exemplary service.. and as the diety is the God of Duty, Loyalty and Obedience I want the PC involved to now have a Debt of Service to his God (more so than just his faith requires) that will cause yet another moral choice within the group; not really a full quest per se but something that can occur to force a choice on the group, something that will really need them to wrestle against the concept of what is good etc... and specifically centred on the PC. If he chooses a bad choice (in the eyes of his god) the wrath of his god will follow (including a nice avatar of the God coming after him).

So, any ideas?

[Krensky]

Sounds like a job for the Personal Mission subplot. If he fails, there's either Discredited or Nemesis (Avatar of Helm) (assuming I'm remembering my Realmslore right.

[jameswllorimer]

Sorry... I meant to say I'm running it as a D&D campaign (hence in the off-topic section) using the 3.5 rules not Spycraft... you guys just have better ideas than the guys over there! Plus I'm not worried so much about the mechanic, but more about the idea/plot.

And Krensky.. you almost got it right, but it's Torm not Helm

[Desertpuma]

Certainly sounds like a Personal Mission to me. I would actually go so far as to have both occur, Krensky. Nothing like having the god who gave your life back being spurned to create a nemesis. Imagine how the Avatar feels about it too. ("There are other things I should be doing you are keeping me from accomplishing. Permit me to do a Mexican Hat Dance on your head and if your friends want some then they can get danced on too.")

You could also give him a Compulsion or Debt or Long Term Mission subplot. Never mind that failure to comply could include the Wanted subplot. In other words, all shades of bad will go wrong for this character and possibly his friends. He will have to choose between risking pissing off his god or joining his friends in some things or maybe even working against his friends.

The god he chose to follow (the one who saved his ass) has Duty, Loyalty, and Obligation so these are the main tenets of the religion and not things like water, war, agriculture, or love. At least with those he might have some room to maneouver within the framework of obeying his god, but not with his character's religious choice. He is now officially his god's puppet and needs to play it as such or get the crap knocked out of him at every turn. Depending on how vengeful the god is, the entire party could be wiped out for doing the wrong thing.

[Krensky]

I meant to start with the Personal Mission. Make it something like Uphold the teachings of god X. If the PC fails, give him the XP for the Personal mission, then hit him with a Rep loss and the Nemesis subplot. If the OP wants to be really mean, use the Impending Doom subplot. Or make up an Unhinged subplot for a Crisis of Faith.

[jameswllorimer]

As I said I'm using the 3.5 rules, so the Spycraft plot terms don't really mean much.. but I'm getting the gist. Ta..

[Wolverine]

In terms of DnD rules... how about a slightly modified Paladin Code of Honour? Boost the penalties for acting against it and you should be good to go.

[jameswllorimer]

Again (and trying not to be a pain or try your patience) but whilst I'm using the 3.5 rules.. I was hoping more for plot twists and ideas inspiration and, rather than mechanics.
For example.. someone suggested that my PC be sent to kill an enemy church's leader as requested by his deity (the moral choice being is it ok to kill at the request of a God).. but that just seems to be too inelegant... I want something with either more subtly or with a harder choice. For a start the example I presented I think my player will just go.. "Ok God.. NP.. WHACK!"

Ta.

[Desertpuma]

You could always make him pay for every mistake or perceived mistake against the god. ... If the player complains, remind them they should be grateful.

[Bill Whitmore]

Have them sent to destroy a temple to an evil god, like Bane or Orcus, and to eradicate the worshippers.  The temple itself is fairly remote with a handful of villages within walking distances.  When the temple was built, the surrounding villages were suffering from a plague that the priests used their powers to cure in exchange for the villagers obedience and service.

Though not necessairly evil themselves, many of the villagers worship the evil god and more than a few of the children have been sent to the temple to become priests themselves.

The PCs could face several problems.  A) The whole area now worships the evil god.  The letter of their orders (eradicate the worshippers) would require them to raze several villages to the ground.  B) Even if they opt to focus just on the temple and priests the temple has formed the core of this community and it's sudden absence could mean a slow death for the people.  Lastly, C) many of the children from the villages now directly serve the evil god.  How would they react when a group of pre-teens stand their ground against them brandishing holy symbols of the evil god while defending the temple?

Good luck with your game and happy (PC) hunting.

[Gentry]

This sort of very personal relationship between a servant and the divine is tricky, largely because the modern guy doesn't generally want to think about it.    And you run a risk here of changing the entire paradigm surrounding divine power in your campaign, so think carefully.

Given what you've said, this player of yours is now effectively Moses or Joseph or David--men who received direct divine intervention on their behalf, and of whom much was therefore expected.  Go hit your old testament, or find a decent commentary on it, and examine what happened in those guy's lives as a result of their brush with divinity.  That should give you plenty of fodder for moral quandaries. 

Above all, your player absolutely cannot deny or downplay his experience, or his resulting debt.  He's a missionary now for the ideals of duty, loyalty, or obedience.  In a pantheistic setting like the FR, this doesn't make him a missionary of Torm.  He shouldn't be expected to find converts to Torm, just enforce Torm's ideals.  In fact, it could offend him violently to see someone actually try to "change deities", as such a change could be considered a betrayal of the deity by the follower.  This could hold especially true for a Cleric that tries to change patrons, as in your player's eyes that Cleric has received power and favor from a god, and so has a duty and obligation to that god that cannot be denied or escaped (see the OT figure of Jonah).

How that plays in the broader scope of your campaign is debatable.  Obviously, if Torm sends him on a mission, he'd damn sure better do it.  It doesn't mean he can't question Torm a bit (as the idea of "duty" extends to responsibilities of a patron toward a servant, too, and Torm needs to obey his own rules), but ultimately it's his duty.  He's probably lucky in that regard that Torm's spheres, as you've described them, are relatively passive.  Torm *could* be an anarchist, in which case there's lots to do. 

On punishment, the Old Testament also provides good insight.  Nobody's perfect, of course, and surely Torm's not going to expect otherwise.  Even Moses had to be called to repentance a couple of times, as he'd let the stresses of his position get to him and so had left some things undone.  I think warnings from Torm (a loss of certain abilities until proper atonements are made) shouldn't be unheard of (like if he lets a betrayer go unpunished).  Outright and conscious betrayal, however (like David's adultery/murder scheme) should be effectively unforgivable.  Such an act would and certainly should be cause for Avatars to arrive ready for the aforementioned Mexican Hat Dancing.     

[TheAuldGrump]

Let me toss in an idea then -
A mission to bring someone back into the fold - an NPC follower of the god of duty that has not quite fallen, but is lapsing. If the PCs do not intervene then the NPC does fall to evil, becoming a major thorn in their sides. Conversely, redeeming him can give them a major ally later in the plot. Give him a reason to fall to evil (vengeance is good for this, as is the love of power - at first used for good, then becoming more and more self serving as the plot continues.)

Killing the NPC does not count as bringing him back into the fold - but is easier, counting as less of failure than if he becomes evil, but also less of a success than if he can be redeemed.

The Auld Grump

[Krensky]

Ah. Well then.

I actually have something, possibly even with stats.
Let me check my notes and get back to you, but it's a variation on the ethical question regarding killing a tyrant.

[jameswllorimer]

Thanks guys.. all great ideas (and anyone else keep em coming!)

Krensky - I'd certainly be interested in anything you might have.

[Krensky]

Sadly, my full notes from that game must not have survived a hard drive transition, so this is from memory. You may need to adjust this seed depending on your party. These events originally happened (in my game) in Waterdeep in whatever year the 3.0 FR kicks off.

A wealthy, well connected trader and his wife are found dead in his bed chambers. There are signs of a struggle and his lock boxes have been emptied of all the coin and jewels and the papers spread around. The couple can not be raised and divination doesn't reveal the identity of the thieves. The Blackstaff claims he's too busy to help.

Now, after investigating and such, evidence pointing at a pair rouges can be turned up. They are Jaresh Blackhand (Male CG Human Rogue/Shadowdancer/Harper Scout, Tymora) and Greydon (Male CN Tiefling Rogue/Invisible Blade/Streetfighter, Faithless). They might be accompanied by a Kierion (Male CN Elf Ranger/Wizard, Shevarash), Cesair Goldspun (Female CG Human Bard/Rogue/Seeker of the Song, Lliira), and Channi (Female CG Drow Cleric/Fighter/Sword Dancer, Eilistraee).

These people seems to be a unremarkable adventuring company, if a bit larcenous and... flexibly ethical. However, enough prying will confirm they murdered the businessman. However, unsettling things about the victims also surface, namely that they are Zhentarum agents and run a large slave pit in Skullport that has a reputation as the finest provender to the local Ithilid community. Eventually the PC should learn or determine that Jaresh is a Harper assassin, Greydon is his sidekick/partner/apprentice and the others are knowing companions and the merchant and his wife were their latest targets.

Now, as I said this is from my memory, and when I worked through that originally the characters I mentioned were the PCs at around 12th level.

Good Luck