Some advanced weapons technology (and one rules question)

[apoc527]

I need to convert a few advanced weapon technologies to SC2.0.  In no particular order, they are the human laser weapons from X-com, the alien plasma weapons from the same game, generic sci-fi gauss weapons, and the less generic "electrothermal" projectile weapons (also called charge weapons in Alternity).  Hyper-velocity liquid propellant guns would be cool too. 

Here's my idea:

The human laser weapons (laser pistol, laser rifle, heavy laser) do moderate amounts of laser damage (probably 2d6, 3d6+2, and 4d8).  They'd have 0 recoil, decent ranges, and be capable of burst and autofire (heavy laser would be semi-auto only).  They'd need the special quality of not reducing damage based on range though.  Maybe I'd call them advanced and say that they lose 1 die of damage every 3 range increments.  Whatever, not a huge deal.

The alien plasma weapons I believe I saw converted on this forum, though the plasma rifle and heavy plasma looked a little lethal.  I'd be tempted to call it a new plasma damage type, but I don't want to complicate things too much.  At a minimum, plasma weapons would have necessarily high Armor Piercing, possibly the 28 listed for lightning-generated plasma on pg 337 of SC2.0.  That seems really harsh though.  On the other hand--does the Armor Piercing qualify affect ONLY DR and thus NOT the specific Resistances of armor?  In other words, if I created the plasma damage type and then created some armors with Plasma Resistance, would that just apply as a straight, unmodified reduction unaffected by Armor Piercing?  If so, that would be quite useful mechanically. 

The electrothermal and hypervelocity liquid propellant slugthrowers are similar in that in most games they end up doing more damage than standard chemically propelled rounds.  Electrothermal weapons would have decreased recoil, while the liquid prop weapons increase recoil.  Damage would be a straight +2 bonus along with a boost to Armor Piercing.  Gauss weapons would be similar--decent damage, high AP, good range, large ammo capacity, etc. 

Has anyone ever made sci-fi weapons for SC2.0 before?  (I've seen the Fallout conversions and the Jaffa staff weapon (which is sick)--are there others?)   

 

[Krensky]

On the other hand--does the Armor Piercing qualify affect ONLY DR and thus NOT the specific Resistances of armor?  In other words, if I created the plasma damage type and then created some armors with Plasma Resistance, would that just apply as a straight, unmodified reduction unaffected by Armor Piercing?  If so, that would be quite useful mechanically.

Correct. Note, however that x-com plasma weapons are really slug throwers with shiny casings.

The electrothermal and hypervelocity liquid propellant slugthrowers are similar in that in most games they end up doing more damage than standard chemically propelled rounds.  Electrothermal weapons would have decreased recoil, while the liquid prop weapons increase recoil.  Damage would be a straight +2 bonus along with a boost to Armor Piercing.  Gauss weapons would be similar--decent damage, high AP, good range, large ammo capacity, etc. 

I'm assuming Elecrothermal refers to what the real world calls electrically primed. Electrically primed ammo increases reliability, but the recoil is the same. Remember that the recoil of a firearm has nothing to do with the exploding propellant and everything to do with Newton's third law. Stats would be comparable to a similar caliber cap primed weapon. I suppose it might also refer to Electrothermal-chemical propellant, but that, again, would have comparable stats to a regular slug thrower. Pretty much the same for liquid propellants, especially as most of the designs be fiddled with for that are ETC fired.

Basically, just use an existing weapon, change the name, and call it electrically primed, ETC, binary propellant, or whatever.

[TheTSKoala]

On the other hand--does the Armor Piercing qualify affect ONLY DR and thus NOT the specific Resistances of armor?  In other words, if I created the plasma damage type and then created some armors with Plasma Resistance, would that just apply as a straight, unmodified reduction unaffected by Armor Piercing?  If so, that would be quite useful mechanically.

Correct. Note, however that x-com plasma weapons are really slug throwers with shiny casings.

The electrothermal and hypervelocity liquid propellant slugthrowers are similar in that in most games they end up doing more damage than standard chemically propelled rounds.  Electrothermal weapons would have decreased recoil, while the liquid prop weapons increase recoil.  Damage would be a straight +2 bonus along with a boost to Armor Piercing.  Gauss weapons would be similar--decent damage, high AP, good range, large ammo capacity, etc. 

I'm assuming Elecrothermal refers to what the real world calls electrically primed. Electrically primed ammo increases reliability, but the recoil is the same. Remember that the recoil of a firearm has nothing to do with the exploding propellant and everything to do with Newton's third law. Stats would be comparable to a similar caliber cap primed weapon. I suppose it might also refer to Electrothermal-chemical propellant, but that, again, would have comparable stats to a regular slug thrower. Pretty much the same for liquid propellants, especially as most of the designs be fiddled with for that are ETC fired.

Basically, just use an existing weapon, change the name, and call it electrically primed, ETC, binary propellant, or whatever.

You know.. between this thread and the Starship 2.0 thread.. ...Krensky, do you work for NASA? LOL  (I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.)

[Krensky]

You know.. between this thread and the Starship 2.0 thread.. ...Krensky, do you work for NASA? LOL  (I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.)

No, I'm just a font of generally useless knowledge who also knows how to structure a Google or Wikipedia query.

Although, honestly it seems like all of the gamers I know personally tend to pick up all sorts of weird tidbits and can hold intelligent conversations on almost absurdly broad numbers of topics. Anthropology, history, physics, chemistry, politics, sociology, materials science, mathematics, astronomy, computers, game theory, ballistics, computer games, English lit, world lit, geek interests, game design, etc. I've often wondered if something about the gaming hobby attracted us, or if the hobby created that tendency due to ancillary research.

Although, I will admit my players and GMs tend to turn to me with odd questions regarding the finer points of a lot of crap, including 3.5 and SC2.0 rules.

[TheTSKoala]

You know.. between this thread and the Starship 2.0 thread.. ...Krensky, do you work for NASA? LOL  (I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.)

No, I'm just a font of generally useless knowledge who also knows how to structure a Google or Wikipedia query.

Although, honestly it seems like all of the gamers I know personally tend to pick up all sorts of weird tidbits and can hold intelligent conversations on almost absurdly broad numbers of topics. Anthropology, history, physics, chemistry, politics, sociology, materials science, mathematics, astronomy, computers, game theory, ballistics, computer games, English lit, world lit, geek interests, game design, etc. I've often wondered if something about the gaming hobby attracted us, or if the hobby created that tendency due to ancillary research.

Although, I will admit my players and GMs tend to turn to me with odd questions regarding the finer points of a lot of crap, including 3.5 and SC2.0 rules.

LOL.  And here I am with Law, armoring and applied physics.  (With a dab of PC.)  Back onto target, and possible a spin-off point for Krensky to flesh out, what about a infantry based ADS or use Ultra-sonics?  Laser is so 1980s.

[ThunderMonkey]

When I was monkeying around (heheh... get it?) with an X-COM type conversion I had originally set the weapons using H&K weapon stats, boosted the Caliber by one or two, added about a half a pound to a pound and a half of weight, and gave the ammo an Acid quality (2) for pistols, (4) for rifles, (6) for heavy weapons and (3) for grenades. I know the damage for plasma isn't acid, but it matches the description pretty close in my view.

For laser weapons just use the laser quality and make the same kind of adjustments.

I didn't, because, well... I don't know, why not. (I'm guessing at the time I was heavily influenced by "Firefly" and wanted to step away from laser weapons, but I could see current technology leading to Plasma weapons.)

[Krensky]

Back onto target, and possible a spin-off point for Krensky to flesh out, what about a infantry based ADS or use Ultra-sonics?  Laser is so 1980s.

Hmm... ADS. Call it a weapon doing 2d6 or 3d6 damage each round with half as subdual and half as stress. *shrug*

Ultrasonics, well, for the tradition Sci-Fi screamer use the rules for laser and call it sonic and then add a sonic resistance. For the sonic stunner, just make up a weapon doing straight subdual. For a area denial ultra sonic system like the big effing flat panel speaker thing in use whose name eludes me, straight stress.

I know the damage for plasma isn't acid, but it matches the description pretty close in my view.

For the love of... How the hell did that idea start? What game? What book? I want to know so I can sic the ghost of Sir William Crookes on them.

Acid is a persistent effect that replicates corrosive (acidic, alkaline, nano-disassemblers, whatever) gunk. Plasma is a ionized gas. The classic plasma gun in sci-fi throws, essentially, ball lightning or a small chunk of stellar plasma.

Plasma as a damage type would always be AP(28), do some amount of electrical, and have the splash quality.

[Sletchman]

I ran a brief warhammer 40k inquisition game, and I had all my las weaponry modelled on the closest modern approximation, no special qualities or damage types needed [except a few special rules that were more fluff then substance].  Xcom Lasers are very much the same, just a regular gun given the sci-fi treatment.  I used AP 24 Fire damage for Plasma weapons [and I probably over-statted them damage wise to keep them in line with the game stat lines]; and ironically, Laser damage for my Melta Weaponry.  Also obviously, plasma gear had the Overheat quality.

As for liquid propellant weaponry, I'd increase the clip size [I'd guess about +25%], and give it some kinda "blows your hand off if shot in the wrong spot" quality.  If its a binary compound liquid propellant, then depending on how far in the future your game is set [technologically speaking] then it would probably be fairly unreliable, as getting the mix perfect, every time, several hundred to a thousand times a minute is pretty bloody hard.  I wouldn't increase weight, damage, recoil or ap value for an LP weapon, as the point of them is more rounds, more effiently, not simply hitting harder with existing rounds.

[ThunderMonkey]

For the love of... How the hell did that idea start? What game? What book? I want to know so I can sic the ghost of Sir William Crookes on them.

Acid is a persistent effect that replicates corrosive (acidic, alkaline, nano-disassemblers, whatever) gunk. Plasma is a ionized gas. The classic plasma gun in sci-fi throws, essentially, ball lightning or a small chunk of stellar plasma.

Plasma as a damage type would always be AP(28), do some amount of electrical, and have the splash quality.

RIFTS. I never claimed that it was a good idea, it just worked for me. From the descriptions in that game, I was under the impression that plasma was more heat and burn than electrical in nature and it the guns were slug-throwers.

ADDED: After doing some other reading.... Man, I was way off and some of the RIFTS writers were idiots. I'll have to change my position on plasma weapons, but I still like the idea of super-heated gels used as a weapon that does damage like acids.

[Morgenstern]

For the love of... How the hell did that idea start? What game? What book? I want to know so I can sic the ghost of Sir William Crookes on them.

Original series Star Trek. It's not that plasma was truely 'acidic', it's that it hit and then did damage over time (entirely unlike instantaneous damage weapons like phasers and slug throwers - the bulk of weapons in the setting). That damage over time component is what brings corrosives to mind, especialy in relation to how it intereacted with "shields". In this more sophisticated age of gaming, we recognize that damage over time is something you can apply seperately from the cause of damage, mechanically speaking.

To be fair, in settings with strong "void" type energies I use acid damage to represent their effects. The Spellsbound conversion of "disintegrate" effects is also delivered as 'acid damage'. In both cases it's deliberate that things that are resistant to acid, also decohere more slowly.

Real plasma (as opposed to Trek Plasma) can be handled handled pretty much as straight fire damage with high AP. Stress and ongoing burn is built right into the damage type.

[Krensky]

I see.

When I think plasma gun, I tend to think of the small fusion gun sort. Which reminds me, I have to thank whoever came up with the SPL quality.

A plasma flamer type weapon would be fire (AP 28).

[apoc527]

Here's what I've got so far.  I know some are vastly overpowered--still working on that.